Calling Out: Purity - Part 1
Today we’re gonna hear from three people and their ideas of purity and purity culture. They have never met one another. Actually, they live on opposite sides of the world. They’re wonderful humans, everyone I’m interviewing is pretty great and you should get to know them, but that’s my own opinion.
As a reference, everyone involved has been ask the same set of questions. If they did not answer the question, it was most likely because they answered it earlier. (Or I forgot to ask it.)
Well…here we go. On the mic tonight are:
Social media influencer heralding from La Mirada, California….Jake Rohr. Moving across the US, we stop off in Lewiston, Maine for writer, author, and librarian….Josh Gauthier. Finally, we hop across the Atlantic and over to the busy city of Mumbai, India for screenwriter….Digvi Shah.
So, what does purity mean to you?
JR: It means to have a pure mindset. What our minds think of and what we do, translating to a pure heart. It’s not just about sex, it’s about a pure heart and a pure mind - everything we do comes from the outpouring of our heart.
JG: Coming from a church background it would be, operating with an awareness within the boundaries of God’s plan for healthy human life - speech, relationship, behavior, what you are taking in and dwelling on.
DS: I think about purity in relation to purity culture. It’s never applied to me because it doesn’t apply to the big city. It used to be that you couldn’t go to temple when you’re on your period because you’d be considered impure. My mom lived through that. She couldn’t go to the temple or touch anything in the house for the same concept. Because of that, purity doesn’t mean shit to me. My definition is closer to innocence.
Who taught you about purity? Was it explicitly said or implicit?
JR: I was taught through the Bible. It was in my junior year of high school that I came to know Jesus and I now have a further understanding.
JG: My parents brought in some behavior in relational - knowing right and wrong. Then there’s church. It was very much in church and within that culture that it was implicitly said. I’m talking about white, American, New England culture. Some of the basics like language, sexual behavior - you don’t swear, you don’t do drugs - the Christian rules that get imbedded.
DS: I was taught about impurity not purity. I was told not to drink, don’t do drugs. We don’t talk about sex or boys but that was never related to purity. It wasn’t about virtue, it was always a moral thing, but purity and morality were never linked.
Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught?
JR: I agree because what Jesus says about purity is not just about our physical bodies or what we’ve done, it’s about the heart. I love it because in our society people see it as just an activity, that once I do this activity then I’m no longer pure. People cancel themselves just like that but purity is more than an activity. And understanding what you’ve done is in the past - you can step into purity and move forward.
JG: I have mixed feelings. I agree with a lot of the fundamental ideas but the way it was applied in the day to day was not accurate or helpful. I think a simpler one to talk about is language. You don’t use swear words or bad words because you can destroy someone’s soul or damage their sense of wellbeing. But, there are other words that hold that same consequence or effect. Christian purity culture puts more emphasis around the choice of word rather than the word itself. If you use those words then you’re bad but if you use those other words you’re ok.
DS: I don’t agree.
“I was taught about impurity, not purity.”
What does purity culture mean to you?
JR: I choose purity because the opposite is thinking too much or thinking too selfishly. Usually, if I’m not thinking pure I’m thinking too selfishly and if I’m thinking selfishly I don’t have a heart to think of others.
JG: It calls back to the 90s, the purity rings, pledges, and the explicit movement to tell teenagers and younger generations that outside of very specific boundaries, things are bad.
DS: I’m thinking in terms of moral policing of art that’s happening in India right now. There’s a Netflix show that got in trouble because they’re talking about their bodies and puberty. It’s this idea that you shouldn’t write stories that show incest, sexual assault, pedophilia, or whatever. That they are bad things and if you write about them you inherently support them. I disagree with that. When you start censoring things based on one person’s sense of morality it can be biased and skewed.
Do you feel as though purity culture affects you and your decisions?
JG: In a broader sense there’s a lot that I’ve done in thinking about white conservative middle class Christianity instead of core Christian faith. The culture has built up things that aren’t necessarily important for my faith. It’s something I’ve been working through. There are definitely things that are ingrained in what’s right and what’s bad. It’s not that I’ve gotten rid of them but I’m looking at what is it that I agree with and what is not particularly useful.
DS: I don’t think so. Maybe on a subconscious level but I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about it. A lot of what effects my decisions is that I don’t want to conform to culture. Since culture is so dictated by that I’m sure it does effect my decisions. You know, I don’t know if I want to get married and if I do, I don’t think I want “the American dream”. These things are so inherently apart of our culture it would be naive to say it doesn’t effect me as much as it would someone else.
What do you think are the effects of purity culture on today’s generation?
JR: I don’t think there is a purity culture as of today. I think society nowadays has their idea of purity and it’s not existing. They don’t see impurity. If the culture doesn’t see impurity then they don’t see purity. A lot of things are justified. People are allowed to live their lives the way they want.
JG: There’s a lot of shame, hesitation, and misinformation. So much was based in behavior rather than reasoning. I’ve heard stories of people who got married and they had a hard time in the physical aspects with their spouse because everything is build on shame, shame, shame. Then there is a quick turnaround. It’s whiplash. It has driven some people away from faith and others have struggled to find their own definition of purity torn between two extremes - very tight and very free.
DS: I don't even know what today’s generation is [laughs]. God, I know I’m only 23 but I feel so out of touch. I think the effects are similar to what they are with me. They are inevitably effected by it and are more willing to fight it. When I was younger, boys and girls were not allowed to be alone together, even in school. I don’t know what they thought was going to happen. I remember in 12th grade one of my friends and I met up to go on a walk and my mom said I couldn’t because she didn’t want someone to see me with him. I feel like that doesn’t happen anymore but that was only 3-4 years ago. My mom’s concern was with her generation and the one above her and who would judge that situation.
“Everything is built on shame, shame, shame.”
Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught by purity culture?
JG: I agree with the fundamentals and disagree with the expression. Purity in moral behavior, for adults, is best embraced by the person. If it’s imposed through shame and consequence it leads to lack of understanding and pushing them away.
Do you see purity culture’s effects in media, your hometown, your family, or your friends?
JR: I’ve seen groups of people when they aren’t focused on purity in a non-fulfilling type of life. There are all these pleasures - they want satisfaction. There’s this culture of people who want to gain approval and tally marks. It’s like do you need that in order to have value? Purity shares that you have value regardless.
JG: Within my Christian circles - which leans conservative to varying degrees - older church people hold to these ideas even if not explicitly said. Like women should dress modestly and there are things they shouldn’t do. It definitely comes up in Christian media. Christian actors won’t film kiss scenes and it’s a personal choice but, it’s born out of purity culture - of what is right and what is expected. You go to the flip side with those who are not part of purity culture and people outside the church have different feelings about physical relationships. They talk about the “norm” and “average” milestones of first kiss, first time having sex but it’s within an awareness of purity culture. Outside of it think it’s harmful and inside think it’s the only way to do it. While those in the middle are trying to make sense of it all. Whenever there is a strong enforcement in one way the response is reflexively in the other direction. If we pull the lens back in American culture so much is in Puritan roots and so much of that was repressed. We have the 20s, the flappers, and the hippies. The conservatives are so controlling. The opposite is to not set rules so everyone can make their own decisions. I get that but that can hurt. When you speak in absolutes it’s hard to talk to people.
DS: Oh yeah, especially in the media. More than purity culture but the sense of conformity. My mom thinks I will get married one day that it’s inevitable.
What kind of moral, identity, or self-worth implications do you think purity and purity culture has placed on people?
JR: Identity is in Christ. It’s interesting because purity is something Jesus teaches and happens as you become a Christian.
JG: In terms of self-worth it goes back to the shame idea. If you have gone too far outside of the boundaries then it carries weight. You get people who can’t have healthy relationships because they can’t shake off that physical relationships are bad - even with spouses. They carry so much weight from past choices and it carries over. Their decisions hang over them. There is a lot of healing and processing they need to do and a lot of people don’t have the framework to do that.
DS: I think about being queer and how that plays into it. I imagine with someone who has been raised in purity culture they would have a lot of self-esteem issues because the culture sets you up to fail. You can never be that pure. Something or other will cause you to fail and I can see it manifesting as shame, guilt, and self-esteem issues. I don’t see it manifesting as self-worth for me personally. I was very lucky that before I came out one of my best friends came out to me and held my hand, helping me through it. I know a lot of people who have come out who have had to deal with a lot of internalized shame and guilt.
“Purity shares that you have value regardless.”
Do you think your religion or lack thereof has something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree/disagree?
JG: My church in particular leans on the conservative side of things. It was strongly conveyed but it wasn’t like if you had sex at 17 we’d drive you out - I know there are people like that. There’s an effort to engage in healthy ways but, there’s still conversations they aren’t having. I was always on the fringes and maybe those conversations were always happening but I think there could be a more active dialogue. Maybe not start with the rules but the relationships. I’m not sure what the correct response should be. You don’t want to run up to people and say you’re wrong and you need to change. If it’s not a cultural conversation then nothing is going to change.
Do you think your parents or the generation above has something to say about purity and purity culture?
JR: My parents don’t talk much about purity. All I’ve really learned from previous generations was wait ‘til marriage but they don’t give an explanation as to why. I think through listening to other people who have said I’m now in a state of purity, I wish I waited - I learned a lot from them and what they’ve gone through.
JG: My parents were never shaming but told me here are the rules and you should stay within them. We never had those uncomfortable conversations. I never had mentors who initiated those conversations either. It felt fairly uniform of the older generations that they took a step to understand their own views and then talked about their ideas on it as a whole. Whenever you start to question how you do things a lot of established people question them. They get defensive and think you are walking away entirely. That’s just a barrier to having any helpful conversation.
DS: My dad is more religious than my mom. He has issues because he was raised to be a “good son” and can’t get out of that image. My mom is pretty chill about these things and it’s pretty hard for me to say this is who they are as people or this is part of culture or societal norms or if there is overlap. I think there’s overlap.
Do you think men and women are taught/told different things about purity? If so what? Do you agree?
JG: Shame plays such a huge role because so much is considered shameful in conservative culture and so much comes on men. Not asking for help is a lot of the male experience. If you struggle and if you have questions it’s hard because those things are bad. They feel as though they already know what the answer is so it may be hard to work through it verbally. It’s a boundary to overcome. They’re told sex is bad, don’t do it. There’s an assumed understanding of purity, that they don’t talk about their feelings and they don’t think they’re supposed to. So many don’t know how to begin even if given the opportunity because it’s difficult. There’s also the locker room side of things and they make those checkmarks. It makes them seem more manly. Then when women do those same things, they are promptly shamed. There’s very much a cultural picture of masculinity and they are measured against it. I’ve heard a lot about male body image that you have to be muscled, tall, and fit. And if masculinity is threatened they have to reinsert their dominance. Which then leads to unhealthy relationships.
DS: There’s the period thing. If something were to happen it would be the woman taking the responsibility. If they had sex, it would be on the woman not the man. Even with clothes, I think it’s interesting the way women’s clothing is censored - like your body’s a temple or whatever but doing that makes the woman’s body public property. Almost like it doesn’t belong to her but to others as well. I can’t wear certain things and my brother can leave the house in his boxers. My parents don’t blink an eye. They don’t like him doing that and it’s not because he’s in his boxers, it’s because they’re ugly.
“...the culture sets you up to fail. You can never be that pure.”
Finally, anything you want to elaborate on or talk about that hasn’t been asked?
JR: Yeah, with ways we can live in our purity. First: Accept Jesus into your life and to have accountability. When it comes to living the life we’re already in, that’s checking up on your friend and talking truthfully about what’s been going on in their lives. Have you looked at things that have created an impure thought or action? Second: Write when an impure thought comes to mind and message your accountability partner, share truth. A lot of times those lies come and we start to lust. What happens in that time is that we are told lies. Oh you’re not good enough so you need to gratify yourself. In those times what’s helpful is to call out those lies and share truth. You are not supposed to do this alone. You are not alone in this.
JG: I think the way forward is finding the best of both worlds. The empathy and openness combined with the biblical of the conservative. People’s health and wellbeing is considered combined with right and wrong. How we talk about morality as well as how we talk with people in all walks of life. So many of the divides are from people who have been hurt or are afraid. They protect themselves instead of making any sort of connection. Conservative culture is especially guilty of this. Instead of listening they keep digging in and convincing themselves are under threat. And that’s not helping anybody.
DS: I think I’ve said all my thoughts. I’ve realized now that I’ve equaled purity to conformity and what is traditionally acceptable, as well as the conservative mindset.
Well, that’s all we have this time. Tune in next week to hear about a philosophical viewpoint, a fuck the patriarchy stance, and someone just trying to make sense of it all.