Drop In For A New Book
On this journey of figuring out purity, sex, and sexuality I’ve been led to a few good books and I wanted to share them with you. They are ones that have helped me think a little bit differently, understand my body and spirit better, and begun to help me formulate my opinions on these subjects.
Now, I’m not saying these two books are the end all - it’s only two books after all. I’m saying, they are good starting points if you’re looking at expanding your knowledge and understanding of purity, sex, and sexuality.
Both are written from a Christian viewpoint, although they do have differing opinions from each other. I wouldn’t say they contradict one another, but they bring up points to help you think.
First off, The Naked Truth About Sexuality by Havilah Cunnington.
This book is great for anyone, you don’t have to be interested in sex or actively seeking it to read this. It’s a book that takes a look at purity, sex, and sexuality in a Biblical context starting with Genesis.
If you’re like me, that reading is only ever talked about in the context of how women are made for the pleasure of men. That’s not what happens here. Havilah Cunnington breaks down how we were made for sex and sexual pleasure on a biological level.
She goes to explain what chemicals are involved when we have sex, why we get attached to people, and why it’s so hard when we break up or why hookups become so easy - and by the way, her definition of sex is a little mind-blowing. She talks about how sex could be defined as holding hands or giving a hug because the same chemicals that are released during intercourse are the exact same as when you hug someone.
I’m sorry what?? But also, that makes sense as to why I got attached to guys when all they wanted to do was cuddle.
She goes further than the biological stuff - which if you’re wondering, no she doesn’t go into the actual physicality of sex, that’s a different book - and talks about how we also get attached to people in spirit. It’s called soul ties and they also make it hard to let go of someone after having sex because sex strengthens the soul tie.
The best part of this book, is that even though she advocates for sex in marriage and not premarital sex, she doesn’t condemn the person who does. She lets the reader know that there is always hope and that your worth isn’t tied to whether or not you had sex before or after marriage.
Since this book is by the Moral Revolution, she acknowledges the hurt the church has caused from the purity movement stating that we shouldn’t feel ashamed of our bodies and our sex. That there is a healthier way to live, which does include sex, we just have to look for it.
4 out of 5 stars - it taught me a lot about the body and myself that I had no idea about. And honestly, I had to read this book by taking it one chapter at a time. Sometimes a chapter wrecked me so much that I had to put the book down and come back to it in a few weeks later.
It’s good. You should read it.
Next up, On Her Knees: Memoir of a Prayerful Jezebel by Brenda Marie Davies.
This one, guys this one.
I do think anyone can, and should, read this book, but I think it will hit harder for those who’ve been asking the questions like: can I have sex before marriage and not go to hell? Well, I have to stay with my abusive boyfriend because we are having sex and I won’t be wanted by anyone else, right? I have to marry him because I slept with him, right? I’m not welcomed at the church anymore because I’m not clean, a virgin, a “good girl”, whatever….
Brenda Marie Davies grew up during the purity culture movement. She got the purity ring, she swore she’d wait ‘til marriage, and was the good Christian girl. Well, all that changed when she came out to LA.
In this book Davies talks about her struggle with sex and the church, specifically the voice she calls The Antagonist which was created by the purity culture movement. She is someone who swore she’d wait but craved sex. When she finally had it, she lived in shame and fear of condemnation.
It’s a feeling a lot of men and women have in the church. She chronicles her life talking about how she got married to a guy just because she wanted to “make it right”. When that ended she landed in hookup culture which led to her rape and her getting involved with an abusive boyfriend who made her have an abortion.
This, you guys is a powerful book about a woman’s struggle to find her worth and value as seen through her sex. She couldn’t find it in the church but never abandoned God. She ended up doing a lot of the things she was against as a child because let’s face it, life is gray. We all make choices with the information in front of us.
Davies asks great questions about consent, LGBTQ+ issues, men’s body image, abortion, rape, self worth, healthy sex practices, and what we as the church have done to those around us. It’s challenging and inspiring.
This is a book that a friend recommended to me saying, “I have never felt more seen than while reading this book.” And let me tell you, I agree 100% with this statement.
5 out of 5 stars - I would recommend this to anyone. Absolutely anyone, male or female. I will give you a warning, Davies doesn’t hold anything back. She swears, she descriptive about her sexual exploits (not over the top, it has class), and the rape and abortion scenes don’t pull punches. She’s real and in this day and age in the church that’s exactly what we need.
I’m always reading so, I’ll post some more book recommendations as I go through them. Let me know your thoughts!
Calling Out: Purity - Part 3
We’ve made it. The final part in this series. We’ve got a good discussion with two wonderful humans.
First up…hailing from LA, California, director Jace Hardwick. Then we fly across the country to Buffalo, NY for school teacher Lindsey Hawkins.
As always, they’ve been asked the same questions and if they didn’t answer it was because they answered it in a previous question or I didn’t ask.
Here we go!
What does purity mean to you?
LH: “I’ve come to understand purity as it is in scripture. Growing up it was never said point blank as to what it was. I thought it was just don’t have sex before marriage. As time has gone on I have understood that it is the belief system of what is going on in your mind and heart, not just keeping your legs shut. I have come to understand it through a relationship - if you don’t you will think God is keeping goodness from you. If you look at scripture, the word purity in Aramaic actually has to do with peace of mind. Yet over time it has become about rule following more than the place of our hearts and minds and a reassurance that His parameters are set for my good.”
JH: “I come from a Christian background so it was always don’t have sex before marriage. That’s what purity was. If we’re going the route of sex then that’s what I define it as - keeping yourself pure before marriage.”
Who taught you about purity? Was it explicitly said or was it implicit?
LH: “Both. Part of it has come through my own quiet time with the Lord - reading scripture, worship, listening to online sermons. You have to have alone time to have those intimate revelations. As well as with my relationships with others - doing life with other believers and talking to other married couples. Just doing life with other fellow believers. It’s a balance of those two things that has given me an understanding of dating and what purity is.”
JH: “I was always taught not to have sex to keep yourself pure because of the Bible but I never understood why and never looked into it. Then I became a Christian and started reading into the way Jesus taught about how a man and a woman should have relations with each other and how a marriage should be set up. I started to understand why it was that way. In my own personal life I’ve come to understand the backlash or the dangers of not staying pure. I’ve had sexual relationships and I’ve seen the downside of having multiple partners as well as the biological side to it. I’ve come to understand the implications of that as well. It’s a roundabout answer - it came in multiple forms. My parents taught me but I didn’t understand what they meant. So I learned on my own and saw the repercussions of that. Externally, I’ve read and understood what Jesus said via the Bible.”
Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught about purity?
LH: “In some ways yes and in some ways no. I do agree that sex is something meant for marriage however I do not agree with the basis that it came from which was rule following instead of understanding the heart of God. Which when you go by rule following, it brings confusion. I don’t agree with the belief that it came from when I grew up because it didn’t come from a solid foundation.”
JH: “I agree in the terms of a man and woman should wait ‘til marriage because I went down the route of who cares. I know that through failing in that area I have recognized why it is set up and how it is a blessing. And how it is designed, not just because it’s the way the Bible says but because of the biological reasons. There are chemical imbalances we share that draw us to each other. There’s a reason why it draws us toward each other and solidifies that bond. And why it’s important to save it for marriage.”
“I believe there is a God so there is a correct and right standard.”
What does purity culture mean to you?
LH: “A culture of honor and respect. That’s it. In scripture it has to do with peace of mind. The only way is by first being in relationship with Jesus and baptized in the Holy Spirit. Then being in community and being in a place where we can embrace the childlike identity of son or daughter. We embrace purity culture in our lives which is honor and respect.”
JH: “I don’t really know honestly. I guess if we’re talking about forcing purity on people or talking about sex in general or how no one needs to know…I can better talk about it in terms of relationships and dating and hookup culture because that effects me the most as I’m dealing with media and how people argue back and forth about that stuff. To me people in our culture are trying to deal with one another in what relationships should look like for all people. I would go back to the Bible and if there is no God and there is no standard, then we are simply making up what that standard should be. I think all humans are trying to figure out what that standard should be whether you believe in God or not. That’s why you have that back and forth about should we have hookups or not. Should we be making out, what about sleepovers, what about sex before marriage or in marriage? When there is no standard that’s set, that’s when we get that purity culture thing about what’s right and what’s not. I’ve learned a lot from C.S. Lewis who talks a lot about what is right in our culture vs others. In others women cover their faces because they view it as a way to save your brothers or sisters because we understand how men can be. But I can turn that around and say I know men in my life that don’t struggle with lust so how do we help them out?”
Do you feel as though purity culture effects you and your decisions?
LH: “Absolutely because my actions have the ability to hurt or strengthen another person so when it comes to the decisions I make as it relates to loving another person well, depending on my perception of another person, I can either build them up or hurt them. If purity culture is, in the way it should be, it calls me higher and has me take a step back in the way I treat people in certain situations. Even how I treat my brothers and sisters in the faith and my own family. You have to look at it as, am I doing this because I want to get something out of it or am I loving them the way Christ would want me to?”
JH: “Yes, because I believe there is God so there is a correct and right standard. I have to go back and look at the teachings of Jesus to see where and how He set up the church and marriage. For me now compared to how I used to live it’s easier because I have something to look at as a guide. I used to be shooting in the dark using different people’s opinions and thoughts. It’s like trying to navigate using everyone else’s definitions vs when you have a standard then there is something to point toward.”
What do you think are the effects of purity culture on today’s generation?
LH: “I have two thoughts - it depends on people’s definition. If someone has a healthy understanding and what it’s actually intended for, it allows them to keep their emotions in check and be more intentional. It’s more quality over quantity with relationships. If it’s unhealthy, it can cause people to fall into sinful lifestyles when the understanding is I have to follow these rules and if I don’t then I’m bad. That’s an orphan mentality and it rules their patterns to fall into those things especially when it comes to sexual things. It could really hurt them and lead them to a place where they would do things they never thought they would or hurt them in a way they never thought they could be.”
JH: “I think in America, and I can’t speak for the rest of the world, but what I’ve noticed in our generation, especially for social media because we’re in social media, it’s great because we express ourselves and everybody’s open - but we’re not understanding how we are effecting each other. How women can effect men and how men can effect women when it comes to lust and things like that. Helping one another to keep each other pure in your own mind. If you want to talk about Jesus even more, how He talks about sinning is more than the actions we put out. It’s how we think as well. I think purity culture, and there are so many routes, the hookup culture is the one I can touch on the most about why it’s so bad. It had a profound effect on me and those around me. Men not stepping up and being real men - I’ll speak on the men’s side of things - there’s a difference in being a “nice guy” and good Godly man that wants to take care of the woman. To touch on the science side of it, you are creating chemical imbalances with one another that are worse than cocaine addictions - which in the terms of marriage is great. It’s designed that way but outside of that it can become so dangerous. That’s why we get so brokenhearted when we breakup. We can’t explain it. It didn’t work out and well, we didn’t agree, but I still love them and I still want to be with them even though it was so messy and I was so lost in it. I think when I dated someone and we didn’t have sexual relations and we did breakup, the breakup was so easy and simple vs before. When sex was involved it got incredibly messy. It’s like why do I still feel attached to this person even though we’re not on the same path? I definitely see the broad scope as how it affected me and I see it with the people around me as well. I don’t know if as a Christian, non-Christians should be held to the same standards, regardless there are things in the natural observable universe that we can see. These chemicals and things are very powerful and it should not be taken lightly regardless if you believe there is a God or not.”
“You are creating chemical imbalances with one another that are worse than cocaine addictions.”
Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught by purity culture?
LH: “I agree with what I was taught in my 20s not with what was in my adolescence to teen years. That was all about rules and not an actual relationship with God. As I got older and took my faith more seriously I wanted to steward purity as opposed to those awkward teen years which are difficult to begin with. When you have people who mean well but who don’t have a healthy understanding of it themselves, they are going to repeat those unhealthy patters and you’re gonna struggle. They didn’t know better so I didn’t know better.”
Do you see purity culture’s effects in media, your hometown, your family, or your friends?
LH: “Absolutely. I totally do. I have seen it in main stream media as not only something that has been mocked but as judgmental, which is dangerous. We’ve entered into a culture which is dangerous in regards to sex parameters that says you can’t judge me with what I do. If we have an understanding of the God that set these things then if we hear harsh words from a friend it won’t be seen critically. We need more people like that. We need more people who do that - people who stand up. Who learn a culture of honor and respect. If we can’t honor and respect people then it translates into what we think is permissible and not permissible when it comes to sexual activities.”
JH: “It affects me, my friends, and social media. If we look at this through the Christian lens - we talk about lust and how social media is just an algorithm that pushes what you want to see. My feed is just Christian Tik Toks. Before it was women dancing and basically women being half naked. There is a problem with that because the expectation of reality is now blurred and that becomes dangerous. It goes into pornography - which we don’t have to go down that route - even in social media people are reflecting a falsehood about themselves in a sense. At least from a man’s perspective - you’re seeing people do things that trigger lustful desires on people you’ve never met and it subverts expectation and blinds you to reality - and to what relationships are supposed to look like. To what it means to be attracted to a woman. You can be attracted to them, that’s not a bad thing but when looks fade, what do you have left? You need to look at their heart and character. If all we’re seeing is physically based and not their heart - and we’re projecting the best and not the worst, it’s subverting expectations. We’re so quick to be like I love this person then hookup culture then comes the real dating. That’s not how it’s supposed to be set up. It’s more let’s hang out, get to know each other, really listen to what you believe, what do you not believe. Love is a choice. Love becomes a choice. It’s not a feeling, it’s driven by action then encompassed by feeling. You’re not gonna love someone everyday, it’s a commitment. You get married and have sex, it drives you toward each other. It’s different than what I see in social media and with my friends where it’s like I feel like I love you. We connect and then I get to know you, oh no we don’t merge on a lot of our thoughts, beliefs, and ideas. But now we’re in this together and it’s messy.”
What kind of moral, identity, or self-worth implications do you think purity culture has placed on people?
LH: “Again, this is two sided - healthy and unhealthy. From a healthy perspective it challenges you to see yourself the way God sees you because in Jesus doing what He did, God sees you the way Jesus does. From a healthy perspective we are able to walk in the identity that Jesus died and rose again to resurrect in us to be the fullness of who we are rather than us following rules. An unhealthy perspective can set an expectation that people are never good enough for themselves and they can try to follow the rules. They try and eventually people give up because they are missing the component of total heart surrender and community.”
JH: “It definitely affects me as I’m in the media industry. As a guy you see all the movies and the guy who’s super ripped. There’s Captain America who’s perfect and has a good sense of moral direction. As a guy, at least, you start comparing yourself physically - I think women do it too. I go to the gym and see these guys who are shredded, they look great. I don’t look like that. I’m this 5’7” small man and that’s not me. I think there’s this expectation for how you look first, then who you are. Especially because I’m on camera with what we do, I want to make sure I look good - which feeds into the problem of always putting on your best face and not really showing the reality. I think about dating and being a Christian and I’ve had relationships where I’ve lowered my standards to meet theirs and then fall victim to that. It’s nobody’s fault but my own because culture wants to say this is how we express love. This is how we should date. Why not hookup? Do you not love me? That can tear you down especially on the guy because you women are attractive. You guys get us somehow. You get under our skin. As a guy I think our sex drive can be more intense than women’s can be. When you’re a pretty girl and you have expectations and you want to get physical - as a man I’ve had to reshape how I want to carry myself in this culture. What standards I need to set for myself and carry that regardless if someone needs to get physical or not. I want to obey God and I fear God and I love God so I don’t want to do that. And the blessing from not doing that is way better in the long run than my short term feeding of the flesh and the desire I want in the moment. It also makes it hard because you want to hit certain mile stones and when the rest of the world is not like that, it’s difficult.”
“Rules rarely motivate anybody to change.”
Do you think your religion or lack thereof has something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree?
LH: “The New Testament identifies believers as saints more than it does Christians. When I talk to people about my faith I rarely use the word Christian because it has so many negative connotations. With purity culture, Christianity can be taken so negatively as it has become this unattainable expectation rather than what we grow toward. As we see ourselves as saints in place of wholeness we can see purity as something to be excited about rather than this I don’t know what to do and my thoughts are all over the place and my sex desire is too great and I don’t know how. We take a step back and surrender to God, He’s the one who created our sex drive and He never judges us for those things. He wants to be invited in to teach us how to better steward it. The Christian faith has painted it as a seemingly judgmental place but when you bring it to a place of being in relationship with Jesus it can bring freedom and an excitement that you can grow in.”
JH: “It’s kinda like what I’ve been saying already. Regardless if you’re a believer or not I think you can see in the observable universe there are causes and effects to what we do. I think Christianity and Yahweh, the God of the Bible, and Jesus of Nazareth set a standard that we can look to hit the target every time vs if you don’t. I think we are shooting in the dark and that’s when we’re getting into human flaw. We have to be careful with how you feel vs what’s in actual reality but when you say I feel this is right for purity culture, I feel I can do this. If there’s no standard then yeah, everyone’s right. If you say I think this is how relationships should be, if there’s no standard that we can look at then you are right but is it the best result for you? I feel like I’m touching on both things. Yes, religion, Christianity, can give us a clear cut here’s how it should be and in my mind can make it a lot easier. If you aren't a believer you can look at the observable universe and see what is the best cause and effect.”
Do you think your parents or boomers in general have something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree?
LH: “At least from my parents they grew up in a home, if we’re honest, where they never really got “a talk”. Back in their day it was more of an expectation to save sex ‘til marriage. It was a cultural expectation and because of that they didn’t necessarily need a strong faith understanding. It was more the norm. That’s amazing that it was the norm. But I disagree because if you are coming at it with I can’t do this until marriage there can be an unhealthy desire for it. While sex and marriage are great, the friendship will sustain it, not the sex.”
JH: “Hard for me to say. I would agree with my parents with how they raised me and then I didn’t listen and then I was like oh you were right. I think what is sad is what the older generation had that we don’t is courtship. From the guy’s side - taking her out on dates, meeting the father, asking the father’s permission for her hand in marriage - there’s a lot to that that really helps a man grow and understand the responsibility and severity of what it means to be in a relationship. I think the older generation, when it came to dating, they viewed it as when you get your driver’s license you really want to make sure you do it well because it’s a responsibility and a privilege. We live in an age now where we lost all the lead up for getting your license and we have these people driving cars that shouldn’t be driving cars. You have a lot of accidents and there’s a lot of mess to that because there weren’t the proper steps. Our generation decided to skip all the dates and they wanted to get into the physical and feelings. They had a route of I’m gonna take you on a date, do we like each other, let’s take it slow. Even if you wanna say people didn’t save themselves before marriage, at least they were taking the steps of let’s go on dates and let me respect you first. They set that standard that we don’t have today and that’s sad. I’m not saying everyone in America does that, I think it’s a lost art. I wouldn’t say it’s completely gone, I think we still believe in dates. Between the people I dated before I was a believer it was more Netflix and chill or let’s go hike and the recent person I dated was one where she respected herself and knew what type of guy she wanted to date. I also saw it with her dad. He set that standard for self-respect which made me have to meet that standard and it was awesome. It was so uncomfortable. At the end of it was like this guy that I wanted to be and in my world, in my zone, I don’t think that standard was set. Then I saw a new standard that was so high I was like huh I think I’ve been missing it. I think there’s something innate, something built in us, and when I started meeting that standard it just felt right and good, even when it was uncomfortable. Culturally I wasn’t raised that way. I rose to it and all of a sudden I was a trying to actively court her, take her on dates and dress up. Meet her dad and her family. Not just impress her but her father who was being a good dad by being like, whoever is dating my daughter needs to hit this standard and she will not date anyone less. It’s great pressure and it comes from the woman’s side of setting it. Guys need to rise to it and because she set it it made me want to rise to it. She helped me grow in so many ways. I tell so many people that even though we broke up, it was my favorite relationship I’ve ever had because I learned and grew in so many ways. It was because she helped me in that. Her setting her own high standard like that helped me to reshape and resize my own standard which I would never want to take back.”
Do you think men and women are taught/told different things about purity? If so what and do you agree?
LH: “Yes, definitely. I think with men there is more talk about I guess restricting and restraining themselves. In the culture that paints men as the enemy with the excuse of female empowerment it has created this culture of fear that healthy men have to walk in when it comes to healthy sexuality. The world is so hyper focused as what men could do wrong. I think it’s hard for them to even know how to walk and be seen as a threat because they’ve been treated that way. For women, it’s close your legs, don’t wear certain things. I think with women it’s very shame based. Not all the time but while what you wear is important it has to come from a place of identity. While believing that God is a father who wants to protect you, and there’s not enough of that, it needs to be motivated by a God who is a father and wants to protect you.”
JH: “I think in high school as a guy you would be praised for how many women you could sleep with where a women would be shamed for it. I think both are wrong. I think we are all people trying to figure out how to work with one another and on the man’s side - in the context of how men are taught - in high school I was taught that women want you to pursue them aggressively. But that can be taken wrong and there’s a difference with I want you to pursue me and I want to be a man that knows what I want and I want to be clear about my intentions. That can be skewed where I will pursue you no matter what you tell me and just power through it. I think we’re also told not to express our feelings as much and take on as much as we can. That in a relationship it’s supposed to be a team effort. I think there are standards that the guy needs to meet. I do think men have a certain role and women have a role. Men need to step up more. We need to be leaders that can come in different forms and you have to pursue well. You have to listen well. We are supposed to be servants and the Bible says to lay down your life. We’re literally supposed to serve and taking care of the people we’re trying to pursue. I don’t think that’s really taught. It’s just be macho, just pursue. Even if the girl is mad you’re still supposed to go after them and that’s all they want. There’s some truth to that but that doesn’t mean don’t listen. Be a strong leader but that does not mean don’t listen, don’t take care of her. Understand where she’s coming from. The best lies that are told are the ones rooted in truth and that’s the scariest thing. I was always taught to respect women and be a good, nice guy but was never really taught what that means. I think the God in the Bible shows that a good symbiotic relationship is I’m serving you 100% and you’re serving me 100%. You want me to thrive and I want you to thrive.”
Anything you want to elaborate on or talk about that hasn’t been asked?
LH: “Without knowing your identity as a beloved son or daughter, purity will do nothing for you. This has everything to do with believing in the God behind everything you are rather than performance and following rules. Rules rarely motivate anybody to change. A loving relationship however is the catalyst that will motivate men and women to fight for what’s right, love and honor people more fully. Walking in confidence as they step into the vision that God has given them for their lives.”
JH: “As a guy I just want to know what a girl thinks.”
Wrap up
I want to thank everyone who agreed to be interviewed over this past month. I had a blast hearing from everyone about their thoughts and feelings toward purity and purity culture. I hope you all had a good time hearing from them.
To me, purity and purity culture is the starting point for most conversations that we have. It pervades every part of life - not just sex and drinking - from racism to mental health to the language you use. Purity is the starting point for where your heart and mind are at when you come to relationships and moments in life.
There is a lot more to this and if you would like to have a deeper discussion with me on my views of purity and purity culture - reach out! I’d love to talk with you.
We are moving on from here to another topic. Check in next week to see what that will be!
Calling Out: Purity - Part 2
We’re back with part 2 of this 3 part series. This week we have a bit of a different take on purity. Grab your cup of tea, coffee, whatever and get ready for a ride.
On the mic tonight heralding from Seattle, WA is screenwriter Gabby Gore. We head straight down the coast to LA for animator Casey White. Finally, we pop over to Texas for screenwriter Chandler McGovern.
Just like before, the questions have remained the same. If they did not answer they either chose not to answer, they answered it in a previous question, or I didn’t ask.
Without further ado….
What does purity mean to you?
GG: “That’s a big question that I’ve never thought of before. If you had asked me that in high school I would’ve said something similar to society’s idea which is innocence and maintaining a sense of, I don’t know, morality. I think now that I’m older and I’ve experienced the world, my definition now is that it’s one of the covert systems of the patriarchy. It’s a weird masogony thing women harbor to critique themselves and other women. I think there’s a sense of innocence that comes with it but it’s been used as a weapon to keep women in line in these patriarchal systems.”
CW: “Two things - first is the purity of people. It’s not clean or good but authenticity. The authentic pure. When you’re a child, there’s naivety and childish. They are original as in they haven’t been influenced yet - it’s that unadulterated, not negative or positive, they’re untouched. Not to say that it’s good, being a really good person and keeping yourself from alcohol and sex - I think more of a child running around playing with butterflies in a Target parking lot. Second - on a cosmic scale, pure is like an environment that hasn’t been touched by man. Fresh powder [snow] is pure. If I were to run through it, it wouldn’t be pure anymore. You have to look at the opposite of manipulation - really, I know what purity isn’t.”
CM: “Purity to me is totally equal with sex. I never heard it without that context. It’s the image of the white wedding dress and all that implies. I’m not necessarily thinking this is clean and this is dirty, it’s about a woman’s purity and not a man’s virginity. It’s something that I bought into when I was younger and I fully believed that I had to wait ‘til marriage and it was this massive sin if you don’t and as I’ve gotten older I’ve come to see it’s not that black and white. It doesn’t mean it’s something good but something used as control.”
Who taught you about purity? Was it explicitly said or was it implicit?
GG: “Implicit. Definitely not by my parents, we never had a purity or sex talk. My parents are very liberal but once I turned 13 my dad said, ‘I feel like you can make your own decisions’ and he let me pick my own path with God and Jesus. We don’t really talk about religion, no lessons were ever forced by him. Everything I heard [explicitly] was from the church. It was never a religious thing though. It was never a God shames you, it was this is what happens in your privacy and you don’t need to talk about it. I think growing up, the idea of purity came from the media. I remember in middle school it was a huge fad with purity rings when Miley Cyrus and the Jonas Brothers were showing theirs off. I came into this rebellious mindset because I wanted to. I wanted to learn about it [sex] even though I wasn’t doing it and appear like I knew everything. I lived in Idaho at the time - there were so many Mormons - who are lovely people, I just don’t agree with what they believe. They were so anti-anything and had this disbelief that you don’t own your body and only your husband can touch your body down there. I was like, this is stupid.”
CW: “I think you’re taught and you have those bliss moments when you’re at the ski lodge. You see those angelic moments. I have been taught, maybe not by people who said it explicitly, but by people’s actions. I think loudness - if I hang out with those who are loud I think, that’s not peace. I look at the actions of those I hang out with and when I’m alone, finding what’s blissful. It’s kind of Buddhist - this riddle of life. You have to catch those brief moments, it’s always in the background and it takes a little meditation and zen. You have to clear your mind and then you’re sitting there in the zone. once you realize it then you’re like oh shit I have it. That’s when you lose it and have to get it back. I went to church as a kid and I don’t think that had anything to do with it. Church just taught me about rules, not peace.”
CM: “A little bit of both. I went to church when I was younger and lived in a really Christian conservative suburban area. Even when we weren’t talking about God and the Bible and what was expected, it was always present. Until I got to high school it never even occurred to me that someone couldn’t wait ‘til marriage. I even went to a Christian college and no one talked about it because we all knew what the rules were. In school the only time we had sex education was when we had “the talk”. I don’t remember it very well. I think it focused on our periods and to wait or we’ll get STD’s or pregnant. Abstinence was all that was talked about.”
Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught about purity?
GG: “I disagree a lot and I still kinda disagree with purity culture today. It’s being a lot more covert than what it was in middle school. It was being in your face with purity rings and saving yourself ‘til marriage. The celebs who pushed it were very much about it being my choice and it should be a meaningful experience with your husband and I was like that’s bullshit. I had a lot of self-love issues in middle school and high school. I felt I was unworthy of romantic love and if I never found that then I would never have sex. I was a horny bitch and I was like, I can’t die a virgin! I wanted to know this and I was under this impression that no one was gonna find me attractive or marry me - that was one of the reasons I was against it. I do find some of the tactics interesting because they’ve changed it. Instead of don’t engage in hook up culture, it depends on the person. Like, if you are using [sex] as a form of addiction or self-harm then yes, I agree but also, it’s saying you have to be in a loving long term relationship for sex. I think for those who can enjoy the act of sex and it’s consensual and they aren’t harming themselves or others then why does it matter what they do?”
CW: “I agree, erm, when I was in the church as a Catholic, I didn’t have any cognizance to apply it to life. It was only when I left the church that I did. By the time I started thinking about life and formulating my philosophies on life, was it then that I started finding things. I do agree because I don’t think I had found anything yet. I bounced around a lot. I ran from philosophy to different philosophy and it’s ok to take different pieces from things - you take what you need in life and that’s where I am now. That’s what I know. I’m still open to finding purity and it’s a constant thing to what you’re seeing and knowing about. It’s just a journey.”
CM: “I disagree because it created this really deeply ingrained guilt and shame about my own sexuality from a very early age that I didn’t even confront until I was a junior or senior in college. I remember being terrified of dating because a boy might want to move faster or want sex and I’d have to say no. I was so scared of that. When I started realizing that waiting wouldn’t make or break my chances in heaven but it was more about controlling women. I tried voicing those opinions and tried to start those conversations but I got shut down every time. My senior year of college I was reading Amy Poehler’s book and there was a chapter about losing her virginity that said, “Keep your virginity for as long as you can, until it starts to feel weird to you. Then just get it over with.” That really resonated with me. I went to my roommate and she shut me down so fast like that’s a sin, I can’t believe you’re even thinking that. She doesn’t buy into that anymore. Yeah, even that I was so scared because of shame and fear I didn’t talk to anyone for years. I don’t think that’s healthy, I really don’t. They put so much pressure on every budding relationship it’s so hard to have those kind of conversations instead of going at the pace that makes sense for us.”
“It’s a paradox. If purity is untouched then culture is touching. There’s no such thing as purity culture.”
What does purity culture mean to you?
GG: “It’s a way to police women and not necessarily control. I think it’s still a way to tell women what is and what isn’t ok to do or want with their bodies. When 50 Shades of Grey came out, they discovered there was a huge audience that was desperate for that kind of content. Now there are definitely issues with this book and it doesn’t portray the BDSM community in a positive light but there are women who want it. And instead of talking about legitimate criticisms it talked down to women would actually be interested in that subject matter. I think when it comes to purity culture and the harmful views of culture, the views on sex, they like to say you are wrong for even liking things like this. They condemn women who want to embrace things like this or anything but a monogamous vanilla relationship. It’s hurting women. They’re saying it’s fine if you want to wait ‘til marriage but it needs to mirror what sex in marriage looks like. It’s fine if you want to have sex before marriage but if you have anything that’s not heteronormative then it’s not ok. I still see that now as we move to a more sex positive culture. I see so many teen shows where the whole plot is keeping the girl from losing her virginity. Usually she’s in it 110% and wants to do it but someone else tells her to stop because they think she will take the wrath of shame. I want to see a woman in a show who wants it 110% and there are no negative effects. I get it if she’s not all in or is being manipulated but if this is something you are consenting to, at the end of the day this is your body.”
CW: “[laughs] I would say it’s a paradox. If purity is untouched then culture is touching. It’s the idea that culture is telling people what to do and purity is just being. If you tell people what to be - there’s no such thing as purity culture. This is Catcher In The Rye. It sounds like, fuck, I don’t know. It sounds like someone’s trying to be pure really hard and that’s the complete opposite. It’s like trying to be zen. It’s like you’re making these rules - there’s not one way to find purity and if you’re having these people who are making these rules - think of the 70s when people wanted to find peace, it quickly directed you to have to do things a certain way and people were forming large communes. It’s a quick way to lose your path. I think doctrines are way to lose your purity. Go to the evangelical way that tells you more than that, they say, ‘woah, woah let’s not do that’. Alan Watts said it’s like “making rough water smooth with a flat iron.”
CM: “It’s deeply ingrained in the church because I grew up in the south and to me, it feels like the norm that you have to wait ‘til marriage and if you don’t…it’s that Mean Girls quote, “Don’t have sex or you’ll get pregnant and die”. It’s also really toxic for growth and the self-exploration that you need to be a healthy, fully functioning, independent adult with a full view of sex and relationships.”
Do you feel as though purity culture affects you and your decisions?
GG: “I don’t do things or choose things in order to stick it to purity culture. It might inform my decision because it’s a reaction to it but I don’t let it in itself be the driving force.”
CW: “It shouldn’t. If by purity culture we are talking about humans that are telling you what to do then I will see that and get angry. If I see it too often, I will try to understand them but I will reject them. I don’t want to overdramatize my role in the world but we are a speck of dust and I’m only going to be a speck. I’m like you have to be dust man. They just make noise. I try not to get angry, you don’t need that all the time. It’ll cloud your judgement and it’s something you have to let go of.”
CM: “Yes. I do. I think, you know, the more I become aware and the more I educate myself on it I have started to dismantle it in my brain that I have been built on guilt and shame. It has played a really big role on the relationships I’ve had and haven’t had.”
What do you think are the effects of purity culture on today’s generation?
GG: “Because it’s trying to be more covert, it’s messing with their heads with what they think is ok. Before if someone released a photo without your consent it was shared and that was your fault. What were you thinking to even be naked. Now, we’re moving to whatever photo is shared, they’re the asshole. That’s how it should’ve always been. As we’re gaining more awareness about our bodies, we’re listening to victims and those with sex trauma - the more liberated we are the more sneaky the patriarchy has to be. It’s trying to be more shameful. Like, if you are trying to be anything that’s not monogamous, people don’t like that because they don’t understand polyamory. It’s all very heteronormative. There isn’t any space for the LGBTQ community and their voice. If we’re not giving them a space then it feels really, really taboo.”
CW: “We’re all on the Internet and looking for community and somewhere to belong or something to believe in. Whatever comes up on your for you page, you don’t know what you will absorb. We are listening and the louder the voice of purity culture is - well we make decisions. We can ignore it, be a part of it, or reject it. Of course we are a part of it in this modern globalized community. I like to think of Spain because they cleaned their slate after WWII when Marco and fascism died. Spain saw that and said, we’re just gonna forget it even happened. So, they erased it and forgave everyone who said they were sorry and wouldn’t do it again. They didn’t teach about Hitler or fascism. Now, there’s a revival of fascism and they’re alt-right. They’re very good at making propaganda and sending it out. There’s neofascism rising because they said, we are pure. Reporters go to children and ask if they know what fascism is and the kids say, ‘who’s Marco? What’s fascism?’ They're saying this is the pure party and we can only be this. These kids who are untouched or pure are now showing up to these parties and everyone is pure. [laughs] Wait, it’s a clashing of purity. Both sides think they are pure.”
CM: “I feel like I sometimes understand Gen Z the most. Some of them are so much older than us [Millennials]. I honestly don’t really know. I think moving from Texas to LA was so helpful because I was able to meet people who didn’t grow up in purity culture and had sex positive education. It created more confident adults. We need to strive for less guilt and less shame. I think Millennials and Zillennials internalize that until they realize they don’t need to carry it and that’s not healthy. For example I have a cousin who is so uncomfortable with her body and I think it’s part of purity culture. She didn’t even know how to tighten her bra straps because it covers her boobs and that’s a sex organ. And that’s an extreme example.”
“I think purity culture is a way to police women - to tell them what is and what isn’t ok to do with their bodies.”
Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught by purity culture?
GG: “I disagree. It makes me feel like there’s only one way to see it - a proper sexual person - and I don’t agree with that. I was never a wait ‘til marriage type of person, I was always a pretty sexual person and that was important to me in a relationship. I think if I had waited ‘til I was in a committed relationship then I’d still be a virgin and I’m not ok with that. I haven’t found Mr. Right and I don’t know when I will. I see myself and I might not find Mr. Right until my late 30s and that’s ok. But the thought that I might not find Mr. Right until my late 30s and not have sex until then is not ok.”
CM: “I disagree wholeheartedly because I don’t think it prepared me to be a sexually active adult. I think if I had waited ‘til marriage then I wouldn’t have been prepared for marriage. I felt for Daphne in Bridgerton and I know a lot of people made fun of her, but I think her character was real. It would’ve happened. I don’t think it’s good to boil it down that women have to be subservient or that only men want sex. It’s damaging to women because when women have those feelings they don’t know what to do with it. You shouldn’t feel shame for being human. I can’t stress enough how much shame is tied to this.”
Do you see purity culture’s effects in media, your hometown, your family, or your friends?
GG: “In media, it’s being covert. I think it’s so interesting with my friends and I think it’s purely geography, the culture you grew up in. My friends in Seattle have completely different life plans and goals. None of them have any plans to get married in the next few years. I have friends who haven’t ever been in committed relationships and have no plans to do so. We’re all comfortable with that. We’re totally fine with living our lives and we’re fine with it. I went to grad school and met others whose worlds are so different. Like, they’re the last one of their friends to get married and they think, what’s wrong with me, I thought I would be further along, I thought I would have kids by now. It’s so interesting to see how that idea of relationships has impacted their sense of time. That was not the world I lived in Seattle. It also talks about being a mom and this myth that if you don’t have kids by 33 then your eggs with shrivel up and die. The infertility talk is always around the woman and not the guy. It might be the guy. There’s also this idea that you should only be having sex if you want to have a kid and that’s not true. If we’re gonna be shaming them now, then we’re gonna scare them that they won’t have kids unless they start now.”
CW: “Yeah. I grew up in a small country town where you’re a farmer and you are told that you believe in God and that’s the easiest, widespread, universal culture that tells you right or wrong. There are people who attach themselves to that. My mother is a part of that and she tries her best to stick to the rules. I have a friend who is a nihilist who doesn’t believe in anything and who’s negative, which is the first step. In his rejection he thinks he’s haughty and true. He surrounds himself with that and he’s angsty. In my immediate surroundings? Yeah. My brothers were raised Catholic like me and now they don’t think about church. They were raised on a bedrock of it, it subconsciously sticks with them. You get a mix of people who are here who are told rules they believe will lead them to purity and others who are working who are trying to make money and trying to do the right thing - trying to make a living. We’re told by capitalism that’s the only way to do it.”
CM: “Yeah I see it everywhere. I think I see it less with the friends I have now but more with my friends that I grew up with because it affected everything we did. With the boys we dated or didn’t date because we were scared to go into that realm. You see it all the time in media and television even if it’s so subtle. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head was Margot Robbie in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. How she was sex symbol but made to look childlike, with this childlike innocence. It was like purity incarnate.”
What kind of moral, identity, or self-worth implications do you think purity and purity culture has placed on people?
GG: “Your morality is tied to sexual history and how you choose to present yourself sexually. I think of all the backlash when the song WAP came out and the comments those same people make when male artists objectified women in their songs. It’s the whole definition of Catch 22 that if you’re a man you have to have lots of sex and women have to be virgins. That in order to be a man you have to assert your sex dominantly and women will be whores. We still see that now when a woman tries to reclaim that power and sexuality, there’s a pushback from men that you shouldn’t do that or they don’t like that. That every decision I make is for a male’s attention but our decision’s aren’t based off of them. I think there’s still a whole sense of morality to it. Like Cardi B is not taken seriously when she tries to bring up real issues but if someone keeps their issues private they’ll listen to them. It’s a similar thing. A better example, Kim Kardashian. There are actual criticisms you can have against her like her cultural appropriations but the main argument they always use is that she got famous from a sex tape and the thing is that it was consensual sex tape. It just got leaked against her knowledge. If you’re gonna believe women then you have to believe all women. And if that’s what you’re using to knock her down then that’s pure purity culture and it’s patriarchal bullshit.”
CW: “Immediately I think of drinking and drugs. It’s funny because marijuana is the least lethal drug and drinking is so much more lethal. Subconsciously it’s like don’t do marijuana but they make bars a fucking thing where you can go kill yourself - and don’t get me started on sugar, it’s worse than alcohol. Of course everyone says don’t drink when you’re a kid but at a certain age you can drink and they’re like sure - it’s an odd thing that people tell you to be pure of. Slut shaming is a big thing. It’s still a joke with hookers and prostitution. Being a janitor is less pure - I don’t know why certain jobs are less pure than others. I don’t know why going to college, getting an apartment, and having all this debt is more pure. But being bohemian, since it’s not the traditional thing, is impure. I don’t know why men sleeping around is touted and advertised as normal but when women do it, they can’t. And we’re being more broad here. Purity is what’s not looked down on. Everyone has a little bit in them and you have these things you say that are good and right and are pure. Immediately there’s a tick because you have biases created by culture and they are instinctive, even if you don’t say it. I do think there are inherent structures that everyone is told what it is to be a good human being. If you see it, you are put off by it and that self-worth thing is affected by it. Worse than that, if you are unemployed in a capitalist society you think, I have no worth because I have no job. Purity culture is just telling people what is right and wrong. It’s an easy doorway to make a value judgement on people and easier on that you are making judgements on yourself.”
CM: “Inherently it lowers people’s self-worth because you build your self-worth by denying an essential part of you which is sexuality which you either never confront or you do and you feel feelings that are totally normal. I don’t think it’s right to deny oneself in that way. It’s important to treat sex properly, that you can get a disease and can get pregnant, but you shouldn’t deny it altogether. It’s a very intimate act and you should be consenting adults but you shouldn’t be denying it and that’s what purity culture asks you to do. When 50% of marriages end in divorce you can’t say that marriage is the end all be all. You have to look for companionship and partnership.”
“You shouldn’t feel shame for being human.”
Do you think your religion or lack thereof has something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree with it?
CW: “Yes and no. If you are a Taoist monk you will be asked, ‘what are you’ and you will answer, ‘I’m a human’. They’re very hard to talk about. If you go to a priest they are so specific because they’re thinking about it a lot. If you are a theist and you believe in something you are immediately setting up rules in your mind, economics besides, as to what is good and right and pure. Atheists are people that just don’t think about it that often.”
CM: “Girl, yeah. I feel like Christinas are at the forefront of purity culture and not in the good way. They tell us not to judge and then they go ‘I’m gonna judge you’.”
Do you think your parents or boomers in general have something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree with it?
GG: “I think it depends on the boomer. I think they are still trying to sus out what they are ok with. They are forward with accepting new thoughts and liberal boomers are going to be more accepted and open. I’m a child of a messy divorce so when it comes to the endgame of purity culture, as in getting married, my parents are not pushing for me to do so. They more want me to figure out my life, however they want grandkids but they also expressed that they don’t want me to have kids out of wedlock. I am confusion [laughs]. I don’t think it’s purity culture with my mom because nowhere in my family did they say Jesus wants you to wait ‘til marriage, they just didn’t talk about it. I don’t think it was a religious thing, I think it was a prude thing. It’s just where she’s at. I know my mom gets weirded out if a couple has a baby before they get married. She’s like that’s out of order. Specifically my mom thinks that marriage is the true last word that proves you are 110% committed to someone. That the most important relationship you have with someone is with your spouse, excluding kids, that’s the one that holds the ultimate weight. When I have gone on trips with friends she is always second guessing my decisions and I think if I was married and said my husband and I were going somewhere she’d say ok, have fun. It’s just this huge emphasis on marriage and it being the ultimate thing.”
CW: “I think they’re the first to talk about it. Again once you start talking about it, you lost it. That generation was the group after the greatest generation of the greatest war who took down the baddest bad guy - and then they had children [the boomers]. They tried to live up to that promise and they either did and that’s the nuclear family or you get the hippies or you get Vietnam and people with PTSD and the dive into nihilism and this dive into how purity culture began. The ramifications after WWII, everyone agreed that they were good and right - we’re the third generation down - often the boomers who reject and are trying to stick to their values want a comfy blanket. That’s what the boomers are doing in the face of purity culture. They go, no I’m right and I’m good and I’m going to be safe and sound and I’m not going to be sad. People cling to that because it makes the feel safe and we are living in a generation that is beginning to question the effects of those who are screaming at us from their blankets. I’m not saying you should take off your blanket, everyone has a blanket - even I have a blanket.”
Do you think men and women are taught/told different things about purity? If so what? Do you agree?
GG: “I think there is still the narrative with women that you should be in a committed relationship and it sucks because men can’t get pregnant. Anything that happens is your fault and you have to deal with it. Men inflict it and women have to deal with it. There’s a lot of fear. At the end of the day you have to deal with a child, if that’s what comes from it. So many men send dick pics and you don’t see them losing their jobs but if a nude photo of a woman leaks it ruins her life. I think there’s still whole things with men that are patriarchal - that the only way to see a man is to conquer, so they get away with a lot of things sexually and they don’t have to deal with a lot of things sexually either. STD’s effect both male and female but guys can get a woman pregnant and never know he has a kid. It leaves an awful power balance. In order for self-preservation you have to be pure and if you are a woman who is interested in sex you have this whole society telling you not to. It’s so dumb.”
CW: “Yeah, I think there’s a difference in what you’re told. Women are still seen as sexual objects and are told in certain places that you have to get a man or not. You are told certain things about what is good sexually and men are not told that. They are told nothing. They are engrained with - they dick around. They joke around about sex and send photos. They are not told about their sexual role or identity. This all comes with a grain of salt since I am a man. We are not often told how to be seen or how to act. We are not told how to act unless you go to church then everyone is given the base line. In the Bush Era everyone went to high school and was told drinking is bad. Sex is bad and we won’t event tell you about unprotected sex. We won’t even give you a condom and immediately pregnancy was on the rise. That’s when the abortion conversation began. Yes, is my point. Being a man, oh fuck, you have to be tough. Get a good job, take care of your family. Also, don’t wear dresses or eyeliner or make up. These are the pillars that are engrained in us through TV and religion. I think that’s hindered society. America is such a young country and we think it would behoove us to keep out women from conversations and not keep out men from those purity conversations.”
CM: “I think, in a church setting, we’re probably taught the same things - that it’s a gift and wait. But, I think in practice we see this really differently where women are expected to hold to that because your virginity is a gift and if you don’t you’re a whore or a slut. Where men are told these things but they’re not expected to act in the same way women are. If they don’t wait it’s like they’re told good for you champ. I don’t think that’s fair.”
Anything you want to elaborate on or talk about that hasn’t been asked?
GG: “If it’s consensual and it’s not hurting anyone then, you do you.”
CW: “Yes. If you were to ask how do I live purely? I constantly question myself and my biases. I have a formed path that is defined as Casey-ism which is in the sphere of optimistic cosmic nihilism. There are 4 doctrines or rules. The first is: don’t be a dick. Most people follow it. The second: what can you be, then just be. It’s very easy to be and the cynical nihilist will come to me and go what? Number three: do. It’s very easy. Do what? Do anything but don’t be a dick. Number four: everything matters and yet nothing matters. It’s paradoxical - you are a human being and you have a consciousness but nothing matters. You could get struck by a bus so it doesn’t really matter but I’m sure what you’re doing right now does. On a universal point nothing matters and it’s very freeing.”
Well, that’s all we have for now. Tune in next week for the part 3 - our last and final part of this purity series.
Calling Out: Purity - Part 1
Today we’re gonna hear from three people and their ideas of purity and purity culture. They have never met one another. Actually, they live on opposite sides of the world. They’re wonderful humans, everyone I’m interviewing is pretty great and you should get to know them, but that’s my own opinion.
As a reference, everyone involved has been ask the same set of questions. If they did not answer the question, it was most likely because they answered it earlier. (Or I forgot to ask it.)
Well…here we go. On the mic tonight are:
Social media influencer heralding from La Mirada, California….Jake Rohr. Moving across the US, we stop off in Lewiston, Maine for writer, author, and librarian….Josh Gauthier. Finally, we hop across the Atlantic and over to the busy city of Mumbai, India for screenwriter….Digvi Shah.
So, what does purity mean to you?
JR: It means to have a pure mindset. What our minds think of and what we do, translating to a pure heart. It’s not just about sex, it’s about a pure heart and a pure mind - everything we do comes from the outpouring of our heart.
JG: Coming from a church background it would be, operating with an awareness within the boundaries of God’s plan for healthy human life - speech, relationship, behavior, what you are taking in and dwelling on.
DS: I think about purity in relation to purity culture. It’s never applied to me because it doesn’t apply to the big city. It used to be that you couldn’t go to temple when you’re on your period because you’d be considered impure. My mom lived through that. She couldn’t go to the temple or touch anything in the house for the same concept. Because of that, purity doesn’t mean shit to me. My definition is closer to innocence.
Who taught you about purity? Was it explicitly said or implicit?
JR: I was taught through the Bible. It was in my junior year of high school that I came to know Jesus and I now have a further understanding.
JG: My parents brought in some behavior in relational - knowing right and wrong. Then there’s church. It was very much in church and within that culture that it was implicitly said. I’m talking about white, American, New England culture. Some of the basics like language, sexual behavior - you don’t swear, you don’t do drugs - the Christian rules that get imbedded.
DS: I was taught about impurity not purity. I was told not to drink, don’t do drugs. We don’t talk about sex or boys but that was never related to purity. It wasn’t about virtue, it was always a moral thing, but purity and morality were never linked.
Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught?
JR: I agree because what Jesus says about purity is not just about our physical bodies or what we’ve done, it’s about the heart. I love it because in our society people see it as just an activity, that once I do this activity then I’m no longer pure. People cancel themselves just like that but purity is more than an activity. And understanding what you’ve done is in the past - you can step into purity and move forward.
JG: I have mixed feelings. I agree with a lot of the fundamental ideas but the way it was applied in the day to day was not accurate or helpful. I think a simpler one to talk about is language. You don’t use swear words or bad words because you can destroy someone’s soul or damage their sense of wellbeing. But, there are other words that hold that same consequence or effect. Christian purity culture puts more emphasis around the choice of word rather than the word itself. If you use those words then you’re bad but if you use those other words you’re ok.
DS: I don’t agree.
“I was taught about impurity, not purity.”
What does purity culture mean to you?
JR: I choose purity because the opposite is thinking too much or thinking too selfishly. Usually, if I’m not thinking pure I’m thinking too selfishly and if I’m thinking selfishly I don’t have a heart to think of others.
JG: It calls back to the 90s, the purity rings, pledges, and the explicit movement to tell teenagers and younger generations that outside of very specific boundaries, things are bad.
DS: I’m thinking in terms of moral policing of art that’s happening in India right now. There’s a Netflix show that got in trouble because they’re talking about their bodies and puberty. It’s this idea that you shouldn’t write stories that show incest, sexual assault, pedophilia, or whatever. That they are bad things and if you write about them you inherently support them. I disagree with that. When you start censoring things based on one person’s sense of morality it can be biased and skewed.
Do you feel as though purity culture affects you and your decisions?
JG: In a broader sense there’s a lot that I’ve done in thinking about white conservative middle class Christianity instead of core Christian faith. The culture has built up things that aren’t necessarily important for my faith. It’s something I’ve been working through. There are definitely things that are ingrained in what’s right and what’s bad. It’s not that I’ve gotten rid of them but I’m looking at what is it that I agree with and what is not particularly useful.
DS: I don’t think so. Maybe on a subconscious level but I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about it. A lot of what effects my decisions is that I don’t want to conform to culture. Since culture is so dictated by that I’m sure it does effect my decisions. You know, I don’t know if I want to get married and if I do, I don’t think I want “the American dream”. These things are so inherently apart of our culture it would be naive to say it doesn’t effect me as much as it would someone else.
What do you think are the effects of purity culture on today’s generation?
JR: I don’t think there is a purity culture as of today. I think society nowadays has their idea of purity and it’s not existing. They don’t see impurity. If the culture doesn’t see impurity then they don’t see purity. A lot of things are justified. People are allowed to live their lives the way they want.
JG: There’s a lot of shame, hesitation, and misinformation. So much was based in behavior rather than reasoning. I’ve heard stories of people who got married and they had a hard time in the physical aspects with their spouse because everything is build on shame, shame, shame. Then there is a quick turnaround. It’s whiplash. It has driven some people away from faith and others have struggled to find their own definition of purity torn between two extremes - very tight and very free.
DS: I don't even know what today’s generation is [laughs]. God, I know I’m only 23 but I feel so out of touch. I think the effects are similar to what they are with me. They are inevitably effected by it and are more willing to fight it. When I was younger, boys and girls were not allowed to be alone together, even in school. I don’t know what they thought was going to happen. I remember in 12th grade one of my friends and I met up to go on a walk and my mom said I couldn’t because she didn’t want someone to see me with him. I feel like that doesn’t happen anymore but that was only 3-4 years ago. My mom’s concern was with her generation and the one above her and who would judge that situation.
“Everything is built on shame, shame, shame.”
Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught by purity culture?
JG: I agree with the fundamentals and disagree with the expression. Purity in moral behavior, for adults, is best embraced by the person. If it’s imposed through shame and consequence it leads to lack of understanding and pushing them away.
Do you see purity culture’s effects in media, your hometown, your family, or your friends?
JR: I’ve seen groups of people when they aren’t focused on purity in a non-fulfilling type of life. There are all these pleasures - they want satisfaction. There’s this culture of people who want to gain approval and tally marks. It’s like do you need that in order to have value? Purity shares that you have value regardless.
JG: Within my Christian circles - which leans conservative to varying degrees - older church people hold to these ideas even if not explicitly said. Like women should dress modestly and there are things they shouldn’t do. It definitely comes up in Christian media. Christian actors won’t film kiss scenes and it’s a personal choice but, it’s born out of purity culture - of what is right and what is expected. You go to the flip side with those who are not part of purity culture and people outside the church have different feelings about physical relationships. They talk about the “norm” and “average” milestones of first kiss, first time having sex but it’s within an awareness of purity culture. Outside of it think it’s harmful and inside think it’s the only way to do it. While those in the middle are trying to make sense of it all. Whenever there is a strong enforcement in one way the response is reflexively in the other direction. If we pull the lens back in American culture so much is in Puritan roots and so much of that was repressed. We have the 20s, the flappers, and the hippies. The conservatives are so controlling. The opposite is to not set rules so everyone can make their own decisions. I get that but that can hurt. When you speak in absolutes it’s hard to talk to people.
DS: Oh yeah, especially in the media. More than purity culture but the sense of conformity. My mom thinks I will get married one day that it’s inevitable.
What kind of moral, identity, or self-worth implications do you think purity and purity culture has placed on people?
JR: Identity is in Christ. It’s interesting because purity is something Jesus teaches and happens as you become a Christian.
JG: In terms of self-worth it goes back to the shame idea. If you have gone too far outside of the boundaries then it carries weight. You get people who can’t have healthy relationships because they can’t shake off that physical relationships are bad - even with spouses. They carry so much weight from past choices and it carries over. Their decisions hang over them. There is a lot of healing and processing they need to do and a lot of people don’t have the framework to do that.
DS: I think about being queer and how that plays into it. I imagine with someone who has been raised in purity culture they would have a lot of self-esteem issues because the culture sets you up to fail. You can never be that pure. Something or other will cause you to fail and I can see it manifesting as shame, guilt, and self-esteem issues. I don’t see it manifesting as self-worth for me personally. I was very lucky that before I came out one of my best friends came out to me and held my hand, helping me through it. I know a lot of people who have come out who have had to deal with a lot of internalized shame and guilt.
“Purity shares that you have value regardless.”
Do you think your religion or lack thereof has something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree/disagree?
JG: My church in particular leans on the conservative side of things. It was strongly conveyed but it wasn’t like if you had sex at 17 we’d drive you out - I know there are people like that. There’s an effort to engage in healthy ways but, there’s still conversations they aren’t having. I was always on the fringes and maybe those conversations were always happening but I think there could be a more active dialogue. Maybe not start with the rules but the relationships. I’m not sure what the correct response should be. You don’t want to run up to people and say you’re wrong and you need to change. If it’s not a cultural conversation then nothing is going to change.
Do you think your parents or the generation above has something to say about purity and purity culture?
JR: My parents don’t talk much about purity. All I’ve really learned from previous generations was wait ‘til marriage but they don’t give an explanation as to why. I think through listening to other people who have said I’m now in a state of purity, I wish I waited - I learned a lot from them and what they’ve gone through.
JG: My parents were never shaming but told me here are the rules and you should stay within them. We never had those uncomfortable conversations. I never had mentors who initiated those conversations either. It felt fairly uniform of the older generations that they took a step to understand their own views and then talked about their ideas on it as a whole. Whenever you start to question how you do things a lot of established people question them. They get defensive and think you are walking away entirely. That’s just a barrier to having any helpful conversation.
DS: My dad is more religious than my mom. He has issues because he was raised to be a “good son” and can’t get out of that image. My mom is pretty chill about these things and it’s pretty hard for me to say this is who they are as people or this is part of culture or societal norms or if there is overlap. I think there’s overlap.
Do you think men and women are taught/told different things about purity? If so what? Do you agree?
JG: Shame plays such a huge role because so much is considered shameful in conservative culture and so much comes on men. Not asking for help is a lot of the male experience. If you struggle and if you have questions it’s hard because those things are bad. They feel as though they already know what the answer is so it may be hard to work through it verbally. It’s a boundary to overcome. They’re told sex is bad, don’t do it. There’s an assumed understanding of purity, that they don’t talk about their feelings and they don’t think they’re supposed to. So many don’t know how to begin even if given the opportunity because it’s difficult. There’s also the locker room side of things and they make those checkmarks. It makes them seem more manly. Then when women do those same things, they are promptly shamed. There’s very much a cultural picture of masculinity and they are measured against it. I’ve heard a lot about male body image that you have to be muscled, tall, and fit. And if masculinity is threatened they have to reinsert their dominance. Which then leads to unhealthy relationships.
DS: There’s the period thing. If something were to happen it would be the woman taking the responsibility. If they had sex, it would be on the woman not the man. Even with clothes, I think it’s interesting the way women’s clothing is censored - like your body’s a temple or whatever but doing that makes the woman’s body public property. Almost like it doesn’t belong to her but to others as well. I can’t wear certain things and my brother can leave the house in his boxers. My parents don’t blink an eye. They don’t like him doing that and it’s not because he’s in his boxers, it’s because they’re ugly.
“...the culture sets you up to fail. You can never be that pure.”
Finally, anything you want to elaborate on or talk about that hasn’t been asked?
JR: Yeah, with ways we can live in our purity. First: Accept Jesus into your life and to have accountability. When it comes to living the life we’re already in, that’s checking up on your friend and talking truthfully about what’s been going on in their lives. Have you looked at things that have created an impure thought or action? Second: Write when an impure thought comes to mind and message your accountability partner, share truth. A lot of times those lies come and we start to lust. What happens in that time is that we are told lies. Oh you’re not good enough so you need to gratify yourself. In those times what’s helpful is to call out those lies and share truth. You are not supposed to do this alone. You are not alone in this.
JG: I think the way forward is finding the best of both worlds. The empathy and openness combined with the biblical of the conservative. People’s health and wellbeing is considered combined with right and wrong. How we talk about morality as well as how we talk with people in all walks of life. So many of the divides are from people who have been hurt or are afraid. They protect themselves instead of making any sort of connection. Conservative culture is especially guilty of this. Instead of listening they keep digging in and convincing themselves are under threat. And that’s not helping anybody.
DS: I think I’ve said all my thoughts. I’ve realized now that I’ve equaled purity to conformity and what is traditionally acceptable, as well as the conservative mindset.
Well, that’s all we have this time. Tune in next week to hear about a philosophical viewpoint, a fuck the patriarchy stance, and someone just trying to make sense of it all.