Calling Out: Purity - Part 3
We’ve made it. The final part in this series. We’ve got a good discussion with two wonderful humans.
First up…hailing from LA, California, director Jace Hardwick. Then we fly across the country to Buffalo, NY for school teacher Lindsey Hawkins.
As always, they’ve been asked the same questions and if they didn’t answer it was because they answered it in a previous question or I didn’t ask.
Here we go!
What does purity mean to you?
LH: “I’ve come to understand purity as it is in scripture. Growing up it was never said point blank as to what it was. I thought it was just don’t have sex before marriage. As time has gone on I have understood that it is the belief system of what is going on in your mind and heart, not just keeping your legs shut. I have come to understand it through a relationship - if you don’t you will think God is keeping goodness from you. If you look at scripture, the word purity in Aramaic actually has to do with peace of mind. Yet over time it has become about rule following more than the place of our hearts and minds and a reassurance that His parameters are set for my good.”
JH: “I come from a Christian background so it was always don’t have sex before marriage. That’s what purity was. If we’re going the route of sex then that’s what I define it as - keeping yourself pure before marriage.”
Who taught you about purity? Was it explicitly said or was it implicit?
LH: “Both. Part of it has come through my own quiet time with the Lord - reading scripture, worship, listening to online sermons. You have to have alone time to have those intimate revelations. As well as with my relationships with others - doing life with other believers and talking to other married couples. Just doing life with other fellow believers. It’s a balance of those two things that has given me an understanding of dating and what purity is.”
JH: “I was always taught not to have sex to keep yourself pure because of the Bible but I never understood why and never looked into it. Then I became a Christian and started reading into the way Jesus taught about how a man and a woman should have relations with each other and how a marriage should be set up. I started to understand why it was that way. In my own personal life I’ve come to understand the backlash or the dangers of not staying pure. I’ve had sexual relationships and I’ve seen the downside of having multiple partners as well as the biological side to it. I’ve come to understand the implications of that as well. It’s a roundabout answer - it came in multiple forms. My parents taught me but I didn’t understand what they meant. So I learned on my own and saw the repercussions of that. Externally, I’ve read and understood what Jesus said via the Bible.”
Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught about purity?
LH: “In some ways yes and in some ways no. I do agree that sex is something meant for marriage however I do not agree with the basis that it came from which was rule following instead of understanding the heart of God. Which when you go by rule following, it brings confusion. I don’t agree with the belief that it came from when I grew up because it didn’t come from a solid foundation.”
JH: “I agree in the terms of a man and woman should wait ‘til marriage because I went down the route of who cares. I know that through failing in that area I have recognized why it is set up and how it is a blessing. And how it is designed, not just because it’s the way the Bible says but because of the biological reasons. There are chemical imbalances we share that draw us to each other. There’s a reason why it draws us toward each other and solidifies that bond. And why it’s important to save it for marriage.”
“I believe there is a God so there is a correct and right standard.”
What does purity culture mean to you?
LH: “A culture of honor and respect. That’s it. In scripture it has to do with peace of mind. The only way is by first being in relationship with Jesus and baptized in the Holy Spirit. Then being in community and being in a place where we can embrace the childlike identity of son or daughter. We embrace purity culture in our lives which is honor and respect.”
JH: “I don’t really know honestly. I guess if we’re talking about forcing purity on people or talking about sex in general or how no one needs to know…I can better talk about it in terms of relationships and dating and hookup culture because that effects me the most as I’m dealing with media and how people argue back and forth about that stuff. To me people in our culture are trying to deal with one another in what relationships should look like for all people. I would go back to the Bible and if there is no God and there is no standard, then we are simply making up what that standard should be. I think all humans are trying to figure out what that standard should be whether you believe in God or not. That’s why you have that back and forth about should we have hookups or not. Should we be making out, what about sleepovers, what about sex before marriage or in marriage? When there is no standard that’s set, that’s when we get that purity culture thing about what’s right and what’s not. I’ve learned a lot from C.S. Lewis who talks a lot about what is right in our culture vs others. In others women cover their faces because they view it as a way to save your brothers or sisters because we understand how men can be. But I can turn that around and say I know men in my life that don’t struggle with lust so how do we help them out?”
Do you feel as though purity culture effects you and your decisions?
LH: “Absolutely because my actions have the ability to hurt or strengthen another person so when it comes to the decisions I make as it relates to loving another person well, depending on my perception of another person, I can either build them up or hurt them. If purity culture is, in the way it should be, it calls me higher and has me take a step back in the way I treat people in certain situations. Even how I treat my brothers and sisters in the faith and my own family. You have to look at it as, am I doing this because I want to get something out of it or am I loving them the way Christ would want me to?”
JH: “Yes, because I believe there is God so there is a correct and right standard. I have to go back and look at the teachings of Jesus to see where and how He set up the church and marriage. For me now compared to how I used to live it’s easier because I have something to look at as a guide. I used to be shooting in the dark using different people’s opinions and thoughts. It’s like trying to navigate using everyone else’s definitions vs when you have a standard then there is something to point toward.”
What do you think are the effects of purity culture on today’s generation?
LH: “I have two thoughts - it depends on people’s definition. If someone has a healthy understanding and what it’s actually intended for, it allows them to keep their emotions in check and be more intentional. It’s more quality over quantity with relationships. If it’s unhealthy, it can cause people to fall into sinful lifestyles when the understanding is I have to follow these rules and if I don’t then I’m bad. That’s an orphan mentality and it rules their patterns to fall into those things especially when it comes to sexual things. It could really hurt them and lead them to a place where they would do things they never thought they would or hurt them in a way they never thought they could be.”
JH: “I think in America, and I can’t speak for the rest of the world, but what I’ve noticed in our generation, especially for social media because we’re in social media, it’s great because we express ourselves and everybody’s open - but we’re not understanding how we are effecting each other. How women can effect men and how men can effect women when it comes to lust and things like that. Helping one another to keep each other pure in your own mind. If you want to talk about Jesus even more, how He talks about sinning is more than the actions we put out. It’s how we think as well. I think purity culture, and there are so many routes, the hookup culture is the one I can touch on the most about why it’s so bad. It had a profound effect on me and those around me. Men not stepping up and being real men - I’ll speak on the men’s side of things - there’s a difference in being a “nice guy” and good Godly man that wants to take care of the woman. To touch on the science side of it, you are creating chemical imbalances with one another that are worse than cocaine addictions - which in the terms of marriage is great. It’s designed that way but outside of that it can become so dangerous. That’s why we get so brokenhearted when we breakup. We can’t explain it. It didn’t work out and well, we didn’t agree, but I still love them and I still want to be with them even though it was so messy and I was so lost in it. I think when I dated someone and we didn’t have sexual relations and we did breakup, the breakup was so easy and simple vs before. When sex was involved it got incredibly messy. It’s like why do I still feel attached to this person even though we’re not on the same path? I definitely see the broad scope as how it affected me and I see it with the people around me as well. I don’t know if as a Christian, non-Christians should be held to the same standards, regardless there are things in the natural observable universe that we can see. These chemicals and things are very powerful and it should not be taken lightly regardless if you believe there is a God or not.”
“You are creating chemical imbalances with one another that are worse than cocaine addictions.”
Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught by purity culture?
LH: “I agree with what I was taught in my 20s not with what was in my adolescence to teen years. That was all about rules and not an actual relationship with God. As I got older and took my faith more seriously I wanted to steward purity as opposed to those awkward teen years which are difficult to begin with. When you have people who mean well but who don’t have a healthy understanding of it themselves, they are going to repeat those unhealthy patters and you’re gonna struggle. They didn’t know better so I didn’t know better.”
Do you see purity culture’s effects in media, your hometown, your family, or your friends?
LH: “Absolutely. I totally do. I have seen it in main stream media as not only something that has been mocked but as judgmental, which is dangerous. We’ve entered into a culture which is dangerous in regards to sex parameters that says you can’t judge me with what I do. If we have an understanding of the God that set these things then if we hear harsh words from a friend it won’t be seen critically. We need more people like that. We need more people who do that - people who stand up. Who learn a culture of honor and respect. If we can’t honor and respect people then it translates into what we think is permissible and not permissible when it comes to sexual activities.”
JH: “It affects me, my friends, and social media. If we look at this through the Christian lens - we talk about lust and how social media is just an algorithm that pushes what you want to see. My feed is just Christian Tik Toks. Before it was women dancing and basically women being half naked. There is a problem with that because the expectation of reality is now blurred and that becomes dangerous. It goes into pornography - which we don’t have to go down that route - even in social media people are reflecting a falsehood about themselves in a sense. At least from a man’s perspective - you’re seeing people do things that trigger lustful desires on people you’ve never met and it subverts expectation and blinds you to reality - and to what relationships are supposed to look like. To what it means to be attracted to a woman. You can be attracted to them, that’s not a bad thing but when looks fade, what do you have left? You need to look at their heart and character. If all we’re seeing is physically based and not their heart - and we’re projecting the best and not the worst, it’s subverting expectations. We’re so quick to be like I love this person then hookup culture then comes the real dating. That’s not how it’s supposed to be set up. It’s more let’s hang out, get to know each other, really listen to what you believe, what do you not believe. Love is a choice. Love becomes a choice. It’s not a feeling, it’s driven by action then encompassed by feeling. You’re not gonna love someone everyday, it’s a commitment. You get married and have sex, it drives you toward each other. It’s different than what I see in social media and with my friends where it’s like I feel like I love you. We connect and then I get to know you, oh no we don’t merge on a lot of our thoughts, beliefs, and ideas. But now we’re in this together and it’s messy.”
What kind of moral, identity, or self-worth implications do you think purity culture has placed on people?
LH: “Again, this is two sided - healthy and unhealthy. From a healthy perspective it challenges you to see yourself the way God sees you because in Jesus doing what He did, God sees you the way Jesus does. From a healthy perspective we are able to walk in the identity that Jesus died and rose again to resurrect in us to be the fullness of who we are rather than us following rules. An unhealthy perspective can set an expectation that people are never good enough for themselves and they can try to follow the rules. They try and eventually people give up because they are missing the component of total heart surrender and community.”
JH: “It definitely affects me as I’m in the media industry. As a guy you see all the movies and the guy who’s super ripped. There’s Captain America who’s perfect and has a good sense of moral direction. As a guy, at least, you start comparing yourself physically - I think women do it too. I go to the gym and see these guys who are shredded, they look great. I don’t look like that. I’m this 5’7” small man and that’s not me. I think there’s this expectation for how you look first, then who you are. Especially because I’m on camera with what we do, I want to make sure I look good - which feeds into the problem of always putting on your best face and not really showing the reality. I think about dating and being a Christian and I’ve had relationships where I’ve lowered my standards to meet theirs and then fall victim to that. It’s nobody’s fault but my own because culture wants to say this is how we express love. This is how we should date. Why not hookup? Do you not love me? That can tear you down especially on the guy because you women are attractive. You guys get us somehow. You get under our skin. As a guy I think our sex drive can be more intense than women’s can be. When you’re a pretty girl and you have expectations and you want to get physical - as a man I’ve had to reshape how I want to carry myself in this culture. What standards I need to set for myself and carry that regardless if someone needs to get physical or not. I want to obey God and I fear God and I love God so I don’t want to do that. And the blessing from not doing that is way better in the long run than my short term feeding of the flesh and the desire I want in the moment. It also makes it hard because you want to hit certain mile stones and when the rest of the world is not like that, it’s difficult.”
“Rules rarely motivate anybody to change.”
Do you think your religion or lack thereof has something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree?
LH: “The New Testament identifies believers as saints more than it does Christians. When I talk to people about my faith I rarely use the word Christian because it has so many negative connotations. With purity culture, Christianity can be taken so negatively as it has become this unattainable expectation rather than what we grow toward. As we see ourselves as saints in place of wholeness we can see purity as something to be excited about rather than this I don’t know what to do and my thoughts are all over the place and my sex desire is too great and I don’t know how. We take a step back and surrender to God, He’s the one who created our sex drive and He never judges us for those things. He wants to be invited in to teach us how to better steward it. The Christian faith has painted it as a seemingly judgmental place but when you bring it to a place of being in relationship with Jesus it can bring freedom and an excitement that you can grow in.”
JH: “It’s kinda like what I’ve been saying already. Regardless if you’re a believer or not I think you can see in the observable universe there are causes and effects to what we do. I think Christianity and Yahweh, the God of the Bible, and Jesus of Nazareth set a standard that we can look to hit the target every time vs if you don’t. I think we are shooting in the dark and that’s when we’re getting into human flaw. We have to be careful with how you feel vs what’s in actual reality but when you say I feel this is right for purity culture, I feel I can do this. If there’s no standard then yeah, everyone’s right. If you say I think this is how relationships should be, if there’s no standard that we can look at then you are right but is it the best result for you? I feel like I’m touching on both things. Yes, religion, Christianity, can give us a clear cut here’s how it should be and in my mind can make it a lot easier. If you aren't a believer you can look at the observable universe and see what is the best cause and effect.”
Do you think your parents or boomers in general have something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree?
LH: “At least from my parents they grew up in a home, if we’re honest, where they never really got “a talk”. Back in their day it was more of an expectation to save sex ‘til marriage. It was a cultural expectation and because of that they didn’t necessarily need a strong faith understanding. It was more the norm. That’s amazing that it was the norm. But I disagree because if you are coming at it with I can’t do this until marriage there can be an unhealthy desire for it. While sex and marriage are great, the friendship will sustain it, not the sex.”
JH: “Hard for me to say. I would agree with my parents with how they raised me and then I didn’t listen and then I was like oh you were right. I think what is sad is what the older generation had that we don’t is courtship. From the guy’s side - taking her out on dates, meeting the father, asking the father’s permission for her hand in marriage - there’s a lot to that that really helps a man grow and understand the responsibility and severity of what it means to be in a relationship. I think the older generation, when it came to dating, they viewed it as when you get your driver’s license you really want to make sure you do it well because it’s a responsibility and a privilege. We live in an age now where we lost all the lead up for getting your license and we have these people driving cars that shouldn’t be driving cars. You have a lot of accidents and there’s a lot of mess to that because there weren’t the proper steps. Our generation decided to skip all the dates and they wanted to get into the physical and feelings. They had a route of I’m gonna take you on a date, do we like each other, let’s take it slow. Even if you wanna say people didn’t save themselves before marriage, at least they were taking the steps of let’s go on dates and let me respect you first. They set that standard that we don’t have today and that’s sad. I’m not saying everyone in America does that, I think it’s a lost art. I wouldn’t say it’s completely gone, I think we still believe in dates. Between the people I dated before I was a believer it was more Netflix and chill or let’s go hike and the recent person I dated was one where she respected herself and knew what type of guy she wanted to date. I also saw it with her dad. He set that standard for self-respect which made me have to meet that standard and it was awesome. It was so uncomfortable. At the end of it was like this guy that I wanted to be and in my world, in my zone, I don’t think that standard was set. Then I saw a new standard that was so high I was like huh I think I’ve been missing it. I think there’s something innate, something built in us, and when I started meeting that standard it just felt right and good, even when it was uncomfortable. Culturally I wasn’t raised that way. I rose to it and all of a sudden I was a trying to actively court her, take her on dates and dress up. Meet her dad and her family. Not just impress her but her father who was being a good dad by being like, whoever is dating my daughter needs to hit this standard and she will not date anyone less. It’s great pressure and it comes from the woman’s side of setting it. Guys need to rise to it and because she set it it made me want to rise to it. She helped me grow in so many ways. I tell so many people that even though we broke up, it was my favorite relationship I’ve ever had because I learned and grew in so many ways. It was because she helped me in that. Her setting her own high standard like that helped me to reshape and resize my own standard which I would never want to take back.”
Do you think men and women are taught/told different things about purity? If so what and do you agree?
LH: “Yes, definitely. I think with men there is more talk about I guess restricting and restraining themselves. In the culture that paints men as the enemy with the excuse of female empowerment it has created this culture of fear that healthy men have to walk in when it comes to healthy sexuality. The world is so hyper focused as what men could do wrong. I think it’s hard for them to even know how to walk and be seen as a threat because they’ve been treated that way. For women, it’s close your legs, don’t wear certain things. I think with women it’s very shame based. Not all the time but while what you wear is important it has to come from a place of identity. While believing that God is a father who wants to protect you, and there’s not enough of that, it needs to be motivated by a God who is a father and wants to protect you.”
JH: “I think in high school as a guy you would be praised for how many women you could sleep with where a women would be shamed for it. I think both are wrong. I think we are all people trying to figure out how to work with one another and on the man’s side - in the context of how men are taught - in high school I was taught that women want you to pursue them aggressively. But that can be taken wrong and there’s a difference with I want you to pursue me and I want to be a man that knows what I want and I want to be clear about my intentions. That can be skewed where I will pursue you no matter what you tell me and just power through it. I think we’re also told not to express our feelings as much and take on as much as we can. That in a relationship it’s supposed to be a team effort. I think there are standards that the guy needs to meet. I do think men have a certain role and women have a role. Men need to step up more. We need to be leaders that can come in different forms and you have to pursue well. You have to listen well. We are supposed to be servants and the Bible says to lay down your life. We’re literally supposed to serve and taking care of the people we’re trying to pursue. I don’t think that’s really taught. It’s just be macho, just pursue. Even if the girl is mad you’re still supposed to go after them and that’s all they want. There’s some truth to that but that doesn’t mean don’t listen. Be a strong leader but that does not mean don’t listen, don’t take care of her. Understand where she’s coming from. The best lies that are told are the ones rooted in truth and that’s the scariest thing. I was always taught to respect women and be a good, nice guy but was never really taught what that means. I think the God in the Bible shows that a good symbiotic relationship is I’m serving you 100% and you’re serving me 100%. You want me to thrive and I want you to thrive.”
Anything you want to elaborate on or talk about that hasn’t been asked?
LH: “Without knowing your identity as a beloved son or daughter, purity will do nothing for you. This has everything to do with believing in the God behind everything you are rather than performance and following rules. Rules rarely motivate anybody to change. A loving relationship however is the catalyst that will motivate men and women to fight for what’s right, love and honor people more fully. Walking in confidence as they step into the vision that God has given them for their lives.”
JH: “As a guy I just want to know what a girl thinks.”
Wrap up
I want to thank everyone who agreed to be interviewed over this past month. I had a blast hearing from everyone about their thoughts and feelings toward purity and purity culture. I hope you all had a good time hearing from them.
To me, purity and purity culture is the starting point for most conversations that we have. It pervades every part of life - not just sex and drinking - from racism to mental health to the language you use. Purity is the starting point for where your heart and mind are at when you come to relationships and moments in life.
There is a lot more to this and if you would like to have a deeper discussion with me on my views of purity and purity culture - reach out! I’d love to talk with you.
We are moving on from here to another topic. Check in next week to see what that will be!