Christy Windhausen 6/25/21 Christy Windhausen 6/25/21

Calling Out: Sex and Sexuality - Part 3

We are in our third part of the series. First I would like to acknowledge the fact that, yes, this is two weeks late. I would like to stay honest and open with you so, I’m going to admit that I have been massively depressed these last few weeks.

Depression is something I’ve struggled with most of my life and sometimes that does keep me from doing things that I love - like this blog - because, ya know, what’s the point? Well, the point is that even if no one else is reading this. Even if I’m talking to myself on a weekly(ish) basis, I’m seeking answers and truth. I want to get to the heart of my own heart problems and the hurts caused by the church. I’m excited to share this journey with whoever wants to come with me, but I don’t expect anyone to.

With that let me transition.

A few weeks back I had the pleasure of sitting down and talking with Lane Bachelder, a screenwriter from right here in LA.

Thank you for joining me today, Lane. So, let’s just jump in. Currently, I’m exploring sex and sexuality and how it interacts with daily life. To give a starting question, what does sex and/ sexuality mean to you or how were you introduced to it? Was it through school, your parents, or religion?

I guess I never really received a particular introduction. It was something that I had to figure out on my own. My parents never talked to me about sex, I never got the talk. I didn’t really have a sex ed type of class until the sixth grade, but even then it was a very heteronormative discussion. So I always thought that was the only way. I guess, I kind of realized that when I was gay I didn’t have a concept of what gay was. Growing up I only knew it as guys who acted feminine. So, I mostly had to figure that stuff out on my own.

How did you figure it out? Was it talking to other people, the media or internet, or a little bit of all of it?

Because I didn’t really have anyone to talk to about it, most of it came through TV shows and movies, and also the Internet.

So, I’m trying to find a way to phrase this properly, was what you found more educational or was it just like, oh, this is just another way for sex and sexuality. It doesn’t have to be heteronormative like what you were seeing before.

Yeah, it more helped me come to terms with my own identity in my sexuality. I think exploring the more graphic kind of sexual stuff I realized what I was into and how to express myself in that way.

And I know you grew up in a small town, it was in Iowa, right? So coming out of that small Iowa town to come to California, how has that transition been?

Well, I started exploring my sexuality during undergrad when I was still in Iowa. There wasn’t really much transition when I moved out here. I kind of already knew who I was.

Ok, yeah. Do you think where you grew up affected you at all because of culture or if there was something else at play. Whether it was religion or something like we don’t do this because we just don’t.

I think it’s like a lot of small towns. I didn’t have any avenues to explore it. You know, it’s just something that doesn’t really exist. Like I could go to my classmates but I felt this fear in the back of my mind that things could go bad if I did come out. So it took a lot for me to come to terms with that. My town just didn’t have the support system for me. I guess if you want to talk religion, um, I didn’t grow up super religious. We did go to church. I went to Sunday school and I’m a confirmed Methodist. I think as I started to accept my sexuality, I began to reject religion more. Just because, you know usually religion and gays don’t mix. It’s kind of a thing. You can definitely be gay and still be religious but for me, I just felt like it wasn’t something I needed in my life.

Yeah, it sounds like it didn’t come from your town or from the church, it was just as you grew into yourself you realized that wasn’t what you wanted.

Right.

I think it’s good to figure out as you grow beyond your town and look back to see, that they just didn’t have those support systems in place for you. When you talk about fear, it seems there’s not just an inward fear but also this outward fear. Like this societal pressure to live up to a standard, or is that something else?

I think it’s a subtle pressure because straight people don’t have to come out as straight. It’s like we’re conditioned with all these stories of how someone came out and got kicked out. You hear them and of course you’re going to think a certain way about your sexuality and whether you should tell people or not. So yeah, sometimes it feels best to suppress it, even though it’ s better now as we get more into the 21st century. It’s not as big an issue these days. I think about small towns in particular it’s harder because if you’re from a city there’s so many avenues. You have probably ten other kids in your grade who are also LGBTQ+.

Do you think it’s more that they tell those stories to create fear on purpose? Like I know there are kids who did legitimately get kicked out of their house or even shunned, but we also hear stories where people were welcomed by their family.

I think it’s more of a societal thing. We like to focus on the bad rather than the good. You know, just like those stories we could tell of ten other good ones. But it’s those stories that stick around more than the good ones.

Yeah and fear snowballs. You hear about one bad thing or anything that’s going to happen and it builds into anxiety. Which unfortunately can be bigger than a good story that creates peace and reassurance. Transitioning a bit, how do you feel about representation in films and TV?

I like representation, I think it’s always good to see yourself on screen. I also personally feel like you can identify with any character, whether they look like you or not. I can see myself in all sorts of characters regardless of their gender, sex, race, whatever. I find value in those sort of films because no matter what the characters are going through there’s usually something I can identify with. If I can’t identify with a character, I typically don’t enjoy the film.

“I never received a particular introduction...My sexuality was something I had to figure out on my own.”

How do you feel about the transition happening in film with more diverse casting, diverse stories, and the shift from male to female gaze?

Of course it’s always great to have more diverse voices, it allows your audience to have a wider perspective. It’s great to see that happening in terms of the male and female gaze. It’s good to see women in particular with the male gaze not being represented in such an overtly sexual manner or in scenes where they’re seen as objects.

Yeah, and women are kind of subverting the gaze. Like they’re showing men how a man would be shown through a woman’s eyes.

There’s this really good movie called Portrait of a Lady on Fire. It’s about a woman looking at another woman. They have elements like structuring the woman’s hair around male gaze with the female gazing at her.

Isn’t that like your favorite movie?

Not my favorite but I really enjoyed it.

Gotcha. So I know you also have a little different take on monogamy, considering you reject it and have embraced polyamory. Could you talk a little about that?

Yeah. This is something that’s still very new to me. It’s something that I realized like a year and a half ago or two years maybe. It came about when I learned my parents were separating. I think I looked at that and was like, I’m not sure that I want that, it doesn’t seem like it’s something that works. So I began to explore different options and found the polyamory community. The things that people talk about while being in a polyamorous relationship just make more sense to me. Like you are still in a committed relationship with someone, but you can also continue to explore yourself with other people. To me that’s a lot more freeing and open. It makes more sense in my mind that you can be with someone, but also be able to be with other people as well. I think it also takes away a lot of pressure, like having an affair.

Can you still cheat while in a polyamorous relationship?

Yeah. I talked to someone who was in an open relationship and they broke up because the person cheated on them. They said that their partner just didn’t tell them about the other person they were with. So, yeah, it’s about open communication.

I think I’ve heard you describe it before, and correct me if I’m wrong, it’s like you have one main partner but then you have other ones for things like cuddling or another form of intimacy. And what you have to do is tell your main partner, I’m seeing this person for this activity. Which I know you have started dating someone, and we don’t have to talk about him if you’re not comfortable with that.

It’s ok. I do know he is seeing someone else for other reasons and I’m fine with that.

Did you tell you what those reasons were?

Yeah. So here’s the thing, the kinky community tends to be polyamorous in general. I think with me being kinky it kind of led me down this road to polyamory. Like you can be in a relationship with someone, but you can also play with other guys. It’s something that’s kind of natural within the community. So, yeah, my boyfriend has a sir that he goes to see and I’m ok with it.

Ok, I didn’t know if he was real vague about it like I am seeing someone but doesn’t tell you anything else. But it sounds like you do know what happens and may know who that person is?

Right.

So the communication sounds open and honest. It’s not secretive or anything like that. At least that’s what I’m getting from you.

Yeah.

“I think it’s more of a societal thing. We like to focus on the bad rather than the good.”

So, the concept of polyamory has been around for a long time. I think society tends to feed us an idea that you have to find your one and that’s it. Rom coms are kind of built off of that idea. It’s love at first sight type of stuff.

Yeah, which is another reason why rom coms don’t appeal to me. I reject the notion that there’s only one person out there and you must find happiness with that one person.

I get that. I don’t think there’s just one person out there for everyone. I think we have different people for different stages in our lives. I am monogamist so I think if you find someone when you’re 20 you should make an effort to grow with each other, but divorce happens. What do you say to the person who’s lost their spouse or is recently broken up?

Yeah, my mom’s dating another guy but like my dad, is still hung up on my mom. It’s like he’s having a hard time moving on. It’s different for everyone.

It really is.

But I really don’t want one and done. That’s so terrifying to me.

Are you kidding? I only want one. It’d be too much work to have to juggle more than one. So, when I start thinking about the kinky community, I remember you were the one who first started talking to me about it. So, I think you can speak more into than I can.

That’s another weird thing, how do we develop our fetishes and kinks? It’s like I don’t know how I developed mine. For me, it’s just always been there ever since I started thinking about sex. Like, I would just think about guys being tied up.

Was it like fantasies you had or things you watched?

Maybe. Definitely there were movies and TV shows that had an impression on me but I feel like I was at a young age.

Yeah, I feel like that would be an interesting study to see why and what ones impact your life. I know I’m real vanilla but I actually would like to explore those different types of things. There is a little bit of a fear just being a Christian, raised in a conservative home in a small town. There’s almost an unspoken mindset that you have to have vanilla sex and you can’t do anything else. It’s like you don’t talk about it, that’s not something you should even want to try but they still say things like “spice up the bedroom”.

When I was first having kinky experiences, I was very discreet about it. I didn’t want anyone to know. As I’m getting older and more comfortable with it, I’ve been more open about it all. If it was five, six years ago, I would’ve never told you that I was having it. And even with the kinky stuff, TV usually portrays it very negatively. Really, with all this you just start off slow.

I think as I’m moving forward in my life I’m starting to redefine and realize exactly how I would like to sex again. What may be included will probably change but maybe I can find a guy who would like to explore these things with me. And I know right now the BDSM community is leading a lot of great discussions about consent. I mean, all of it is about consent and making sure everything is ok with your partner every step of the way.

Bondage can be dangerous so, if that’s something you’re exploring you have to always keep that in the back of your mind. And consent is a natural part of it.

I think it often goes back to the communication piece you were talking about earlier. And I know I was reading something about a dom and a sub where the dom was making sure the sub was ok not just physically but mentally and emotionally as well. In this, the dom realized the sub was not ok physically even though they were saying yes mentally and emotionally. It’s this notion that consent is about all three, physical, mental, and emotional. You can be in different places with each of those things even if you verbally say yes.

“I reject the notion that there’s only one person out there and you must find happiness with that one person.”

I think that is some of the first things I had ever heard about consent, just in general. It’s definitely something that you have to be mindful of, like you don’t have to be kinky for all these things to come into play. Even looking back on my own experiences, there’s been some that I wasn’t enjoying.

Which is why they talk about enthusiastic consent now and there are great discussions happening in multiple areas. Even with small children.

Yeah, I don’t think we should be afraid to educate our children on sex. It’s about working with them in an age appropriate context.

Which I totally agree with.

I would like to thank Lane for taking the time to sit down with me.

Next week, I think I’m gonna do something a little different and have a few book reviews for you. If you’re not a reader, what’s wrong with you? I’m kidding, but seriously, these are some fantastic books that you should definitely pick up and read pronto.

Christy Windhausen 5/20/21 Christy Windhausen 5/20/21

Calling Out: Sex & Sexuality - Part 2

Welcome back for another part to this series!

This week we’re chatting with Gabby Gore, a screenwriter out of Seattle, WA.

Just like last week, there were no formal questions. I let conversation flow as it may. This one was a bit shorter, but if you would like the full transcript let me know. I’ll send it your way.

Thank you for taking time to join me. I guess let’s jump in with a starting question to get this whole thing going. Sex and sexuality are so inherent and ingrained in our culture - whether it’s media, how we grew up, or just day to day living within relationships - it really effects us. I think I noticed that especially within the last series. So how you interpret that throughout your life? What does sex and sexuality mean to you, and we can go from there.

That’s a lot.

I know.

I guess, well, I’ve always been interested in sex. I think ever since I entered puberty and had those hormones kick in. I always knew I would be a pretty sexual person when I came of age. I don’t know where it came from, if it’s just how I was built. Neither of my parents have shown any indication that sex is something on their minds or part of their lives, at least to me. And it’s not a religious thing. It’s just not their thing, especially my mom. Even her parents were that way. They never said sex was bad, none of that, it was just never mentioned. I feel like in my mind there’s just a walking WAP song. I listened to that song and I was like me, me. I want that. I want all of that. Yes, I feel that. So, I don’t know if it’s nature vs nurture. I definitely was not nurtured to feel this way or understand that sex isn’t normal. It is totally normal. I remember stealing cosmos when I was a preteen and I didn’t know what any of it meant but I was still intrigued by it.

I know you’ve talked before about how you grew up in a conservative town where they didn’t talk about sex. It was a culture heavily influenced by the Mormon Church.

Yeah and you know, I had friends that weren’t super religious but it was something you just didn’t discuss. You didn’t talk about it. Even when we were in high school and people were having sex, they still didn’t talk about it. So, I sought a lot of stuff out. When I went to college, in my freshman year I took human sexuality. It was a very polarizing class because you have people who grew up with the idea that sex is bad. Their whole thing was that this was just the class that you watched pornography. It was nicknamed the porn class. There were other people who thought it was intriguing and interesting. Me being a little freshman was like, hehe the porn class, and I took it with two of my friends. We were going to see what it was all about and it ended up being one of the most useful, best classes I ever took. It was structured so academically. We looked at what sex means to different cultures and how we as a society came to interpret sex now. And they did have porn Fridays but they were instructional porn videos. The videos were literally what it says, instructional sex.

My brain is going Monty Python with what this could mean. I think they did one once where it was very sarcastic but also instructional.

Once they hook you with that then they go in the biology of sex. So, the hormone cycles, the different phases of arousal and when you climax. It’s basically storyboarding but we learned all the biology to it. Then we learned about sexual deviancy like how pedophiles come to be, sexual assault, and the ramifications of sex crimes. That kind of stuff. It was really heavy but really interesting. That was the first time I had truly learned about that and we had some really good conversations surrounding consent. So the professor would throw a question up like if a guy forced himself on a girl is that rape? Almost 100% would say yes. Then she’d ask if he was married to her would you feel the same way? That really shook the whole class because we never thought about it in those terms. Just because you’re in a relationship with someone or are married to them, does that automatically give consent to every future sexual encounter? I had never heard consent stated like that. Some of the other things I learned was about the transgender community and the BDSM community. Members of the community came into the class and spoke to us about what it truly means to be a part of the community. I think it all further intrigued me me and made me want to be more sex positive. It was really the first time I felt like I had knowledge that I could go forth into the world with.

“Just because you are in a relationship or married to someone, does that automatically give consent to every future sexual encounter?”

That sounds really interesting. I know we had a sex ed class in high school, but it wasn’t that at all. It was your standard abstinence class. They had people talk about condoms and STIs and things like that but it was very basic. I think they talked more about alcohol than they did sex. And we never looked at consent that way. It’s cool that you had access to a class like that. It seems like a great opportunity.

It was. I recommended that class to everyone. Some people got uncomfortable when I would mention it. They would be like, that’s just the porn class. Like, no, you learn other stuff. And I don’t think teenagers or minors need to be watching porn in their high schools, but I do think that learning about the culture of sex and aligning the biology behind it, learning about consent, sex crimes, things like that is important.

Oh absolutely. I’m thinking of who I was as a high schooler, I don’t know if I would’ve taken that class but I probably needed it.

No, this wasn’t high school. I took this when I was in undergrad when I as in Seattle.

Oh ok.

This is a bit of a side tangent, but I’m pretty close friends with some of my high school friends still and some of them were a part of the Mormon community. One of my friends was sexually assaulted and she went to tell the leaders of the church. Instead of asking what happened, they victim blamed her. And because virginity is such a huge deal, they shunned her from the church even though it wasn’t her fault. It totally messed up her relationship with the church. She’s no longer a Mormon because of it. It’s always stuff like that where people need the communities they’re in, but usually they’re the most unhelpful, especially religious ones.

I can’t speak for all of them, but even the Christian community doesn’t speak about sex in a positive way. They’re trying to and I can see it, but they’re still shy and they don’t really know how to come at it because for a lot of Christians it’s the same way, you stay a virgin until marriage. So, they don’t know how to talk about sex in a healthy manner. They do better with assault victims. I do think this needs to be an open conversation about why is it your choice and understanding that God doesn’t hate you. He doesn’t shame you for wanting it.

From what I remember from that class, when we were learning about different cultures, the ancient European cultures - like before Christ - viewed sex as strictly procreation. Like, you do not have this for pleasure. One of the things that was talked about was how shame is so connected to it because when those cultures turned to Christianity, they used the stuff in the Bible to justify their practices. You’re more familiar with it than I am, but they said it was less civil so they justified their actions and it just kind of stuck.

I can’t think of any verses off the top of my head which they would’ve used however I know it’s a common practice for the church throughout history to grab random verses to justify their actions. Rather than looking at those verses in context and seeing what it is that the verse is actually saying. So, I can understand how that happens. Especially if it goes on through all of history and culture, and is widely accepted so now we have this really condemning practice that hurts and shames people. We really need to stop and look at what we’re saying and doing. People shouldn’t be taking random verses out of the Bible to justify their own actions.

I think a lot of it too has to do with Catholicism being the main role of Christianity for hundreds of years. The Virgin Mary and that whole aspect of how you come to terms with the Immaculate Conception. It’s this ultimate form of purity or sainthood in the fact that she had Jesus without ever being touched. Which is a ridiculous standard to hold women to, but here we are.

Yeah, I don’t really know because I haven’t looked into it enough to know if they hold virginity as such a high standard because of the Virgin Mary or not. If it is, it’s a real shit one. Honestly, Jesus himself holds prostitutes in high regard. There are many notable prostitutes and women who aren’t virgins throughout the Bible. Many believe Jesus himself was married and didn’t die a virgin. Then you say virginity is the highest form we have to reach? It brings in this very conflicting morality and feelings.

Yeah. I feel like me versus a lot of other people you talk to - with the exception of like two - didn’t grow up in super Christian cultures. Mine was weird because we didn’t talk about it but it wasn’t a religious thing. I know I want to have kids someday and when I get there I want them to be able to have good educational conversations with them early on. To not have them feel shame or feel like they need to keep something secret.

“I guess I’m of the mindset if you’re doing it in a healthy, safe, and consensual way...why does it matter?”

Oh absolutely. I myself am trying to figure out what it means to be fully educated and have open conversations with others my own age surrounding this, let alone children. I know there is a movement happening where there is encouragement to talk to children about different parts of the body appropriately and not use euphemisms or weird names.

I think it’s great to start instilling that in children now. If something were to happen to them, they would be able to better articulate and tell you exactly what happened. That’s reason enough. And when they time comes that they feel like they’re ready and able to make those decisions to have sex - I’m not saying they should be making their sexual debut at 13. No, please don’t do that, but maybe 16 or 17, at the end of the day I might be like, you know it’s your body. Be safe, do what you want with it.

And there’s a lot to that. For me, I’m trying to learn these things for myself. There’s just not enough discussion about it and it does come with a very high shame factor.

Even this kind of discussion that we’re having is wrong in some way and that’s not right. It’s weird to me that people put so much morality on something that is needed to populate our species. No matter what, this is biologically necessary for us as a collective. I don’t know, I guess I’m just of the mindset that if you’re doing it in a healthy, safe, consensual way why does it matter?

I think part of it is that it’s almost never those three things. It’s hopefully consensual at bare bones, but how many actually have healthy knowledge of what sex is. Men still don’t really know women’s bodies. There’s jokes about finding the clit and G spot. Or they’re not communicating in a way that’s healthy. So, how much of it is actually healthy sex practices? I swear to God it better be consensual, but I’ve come to learn consent can be gray. There now needs to be enthusiastic consent but a lot of guys are realizing how much they’ve pressed the boundaries on that. And safe? There’s still the joke of how hard it is to get a guy to wear a condom. Like dude, wear one. Yeah, those are the things you’re asking for and you might be more equipped than most people, but those are some of the hardest things to get. People often put their own morality on things because they think they’re right and they think other people should be acting the same way they are. Most of the time they’re not right because they’re trying to force people into something. So that makes it difficult, especially if you’re getting it from the church or a political party who’s trying to cover a huge swath of people.

I think for me personally, a lot of it comes down to controlling women. We’ve been controlled since the dawn of time and the more freedom women get the more scared men get. So they have to think of new ways to keep up in line. Of course, the goal of the oppressors is to get the oppressed to oppress each other.

I have been hearing a lot more of these discussions framed this way more recently. Not that I haven’t ever heard it, I think it’s just a new framing.

I’ve noticed that anytime women start to do something 110% just for them, that topic or thing becomes disvalued by men. For the longest time in society you were supposed to wear makeup to make yourself look better. Now, with the help of the internet, women are doing makeup to make themselves to feel great and beautiful. The joke is like, oh you got to take her swimming on the first date. To which I’m like, if you find her attractive with makeup, what do you think? That she’s gonna stop wearing it when she dates you?

So much of culture is putting expectations on how they think women should and should not act. It’s this expectation that women have to act in a certain way and if they don’t then they’ll be shamed for it.

It was interesting in your last series, I remember there was one guy who thought purity was like nothing, like it was untouched. It was this greatness and he tried making it sound really poetic and religious. I don’t want to project what he was thinking but I found it interesting to juxtapose that with the two other ladies in the article that saw it as constraining and constricting.

I have heard that men do go through shaming and toxic male body image. It’s nothing like what women go through. There is this ideal male image they have to hold to which is how we get toxic masculinity. I think that’s one of the interesting things that I found that men do has these issues as well. They have an ideal that if they don’t reach it they get shamed and they project their hurts and their traumas and wounds on women specifically.

I think we see that specifically with the rise of in cells. I think learning about purity culture is so interesting for a woman. She’s not supposed to have sex but a man is supposed to have lots of sex. The question is, who are all these men having sex with? Let’s be real. When your definition of being a man is the amount of women that you quote conquer and no woman wants to date you, but you think it’s your right as a man to have all this sex - this leads to all this toxic messaging and sexism. It can lead to this huge violence against women.

“The goal of the oppressor is to get the oppressed to oppress each other.”

And women are sexual beings who will have sex with men if they aren’t assholes, like they would. What you’re saying is how we get sexual assault because they do force themselves on women. If they really were good guys who didn’t view women as objects and treated them like people it could be really great sex between two people who really cared for each other. Or even if they just wanted to have fun. It’s just that really toxic cycle that will spin on itself, which is not good.

I don’t know how much this has to do with all of this, but a lot of them will say women are shallow and only date hot men. That if the guy was more attractive then they’d have sex with them, to which I go, do you know the amount of the tropes we have of hot wife ugly husband? Women are able to see past the physical and want to date someone who respects them, is nice to them, and is in general a good person. Like, don’t get me wrong I simp for himbos but I also will go for a guy that isn’t super hot but is super nice who wants to go on adventures and is fun.

I mean same. I like the teddy bear guys, they’re cute and you can cuddle with them but also, I do love the string bean surfer boys.

I don’t know what it is about string beans but they’re attracted to fuller women. I don’t get it. It’s like you can wear my clothes and I don’t like that.

I want to wear your clothes.

Yeah. I don’t like that you can put on my sweatshirt and I don’t like that.

Thank you again to Gabby for chatting with me.

Next week we will be getting a bit kinky with the gay community. It’s gonna be fun, you won’t want to miss it.

Christy Windhausen 5/10/21 Christy Windhausen 5/10/21

Calling Out: Sex & Sexuality - Part 1

This week we start our dive into a discussion on Sex & Sexuality. We will be looking at topics relating to these subjects, some of which may not seem entirely relevant, but they are. Topics like male and female body image, consent, cat-calling, and plain old listening.

The format is different than the last series - there were no questions. This was an informal discussion about the topic and I let the conversation go where it needed and wanted to.

To let you the reader know, this was a 3-hour long discussion and I couldn’t include everything. If you are interested in all that was said, shoot me a message and I’ll send you the full transcript.

Without further ado, let me introduce Josh Gauthier. He is a writer and novelist from Maine. He has a brand new book out that’s pretty great - you should go buy it. He is a wordsmith, a complete nerd, and a dear friend of mine.

Hi. So thank you for being willing to sit down and talk with me. I know in our last interview we talked about how you grew up in a very conservative culture. I grew up similarly and a lot of people I had spoken to agreed that no one really talks about sex and sexuality within the church. It’s a subconscious thing that’s not spoken about explicitly. Then people shape their own ideas about it or they fumble through life trying to figure it out. It can be toxic or it can be healthy. There’s a lot to all of this, I know.

Yeah, and I probably will have a lot of thoughts on all of that. So we’ll see what’s interesting and where things end up.

If you would like, could you speak more to the male side of things?

Yeah, ok. So I think I mentioned some before with the circles I’m in that we talk about a lot of this stuff. It’s a lot of different things, but about gender, sexuality, and the patriarchy. That’s a common discussion. So, I get pieces of the perspective from all over. [And looking at this from the beginning] there’s this inability to have a reasonable conversation or be informed about sex or the other sex. Then even the people who do sincerely want to talk about it have to overcome those barriers before you can get anything done. It’s like you have to convince people that this is a reasonable thing to talk about or even know about.

I understand that. There were definitely times in my life where you couldn’t even say the word sex. You just didn’t do that. Then I got past that and it was still this huge obscure thing that I was intrigued with, but ya know don’t do it or you’ll go to hell or die from an STI or get a baby. Now I’m fine with everything, but there’s all these other layers that come with it. There’s so much emotional, spiritual, physical, and societal layers. It’s all very real and I’m not scared of any of these layers, so let’s talk about it.

Right. Why not? There are very serious pieces to it with some deeper repercussions, but the way it’s often handled is not right. It’s a very basic human impulse and to just ignore it and say, you’ll be fine. That’s not good.

Ignoring anything and hoping it’ll go away is not going to work. You have to acknowledge it then work through it.

Exactly.

“This is not shameful, this is something to take care of. It’s an important piece of your life to handle responsibly.”

And I think you’re right. It is a basic human impulse. God gave it to us, this ability to be sexual, but we’re supposed to steward that in a certain way. That’s part of control. That’s part of getting older and maturity, but we’re still made to be that.

I don’t have the numbers off the top of my head but I’ve seen comparisons of informed sex ed vs abstinence only education and they looked at the rates of unwanted pregnancies and STI’s. It’s so much higher on the abstinence only side because they’re told don’t do this. Then when they do decide and make those decisions they have no base of knowledge to work from. I think that carries all the way through to the wedding night. When people do get married and they’re terrified because they have no idea what they’re doing.

It’s definitely about being informed and telling people what sex is. Giving them information to make the right decisions and part of that is not shaming them when and if they decide to have sex. Instead say, hey, these are the consequences good and bad of what will happen if you do and if you don’t. I think everything, at least in the church, is always skewed negatively in that kind of conversation.

Right. Well, they’re told sex outside of marriage is terrible and bad, but then they watch TV and read books and hear from their friends who say, hey, this is really enjoyable. So, when those two things are at odd with each other, there’s no way to really reconcile it. They have to decide which one is lying to them and one side is louder and more persuasive than the other just by default. I liked your stewardship term. This is not shameful, this is something to take care of. It’s an important piece of your life to handle responsibly. And that puts it in an entirely different framework where it is a good thing that you will enjoy and it’s not something to be ashamed of. It’s being mindful of what you do with that and it will be better for you in the long run.

Right and I think a lot of this starts by being open and vulnerable and just wanting to talk about it. Like, I want to know if and when I’m wrong. Please correct me, let’s have a conversation. I think there are topics that need to be heard and need to be said because I was raised in a place where we didn’t talk about anything. I have friends that talk about the heteronormative and I’m realizing how ingrained in me that is. I never realized it before because I grew up very conservative, white, straight, living in a small town. So, now, it’s just having these conversations.

Well, it’s interesting how much culture and history plays a role in that because 50 years ago women couldn’t open their own bank account. We talk about how no one wants to commit to marriage and the divorce rate has gone up but then we point that out. Or that women actually have the ability to leave and survive and not be murdered by their husbands while they get off free. And there’s a lot more going on that hasn’t been talked about. If we can actually talk about those things with information and actual facts, it’s much more effective than assumptions of the status quo. So many people on the conservative side of it don’t even have basic medical facts. I hear some of these old white guys talk about women’s bodies and they’re so wrong. If you don’t even know basics, who are you to tell me anything else?

“It’s not the girl’s fault. It’s self-preservation. Like it’s a real thing.”

I’m still learning things about women’s bodies. Me, a woman, who’s still learning things. I can’t imagine a guy, especially an old white guy set in his ways. And I know in the last series there were a lot of men that expressed the same sentiment - that there was this kind of locker room talk or locker room mentality that men strive for. I know being on the receiving end as a woman, knowing that’s his mentality to just get another notch in his belt, it’s really hurtful.

Right. Yeah. I think I was talking to someone just today about this and how much it damages friendships. That women are realizing they don’t have friends, they just have guys who are trying to hook up with them. And how that ruins everything. It goes back to this whole cultural idea that men and women can’t be friends because there’s always a sexual attitude going on. Which doesn’t help anybody. It’s all this pressure. It’s this fear. My co-workers talk about being cat-called all the time. They’re just walking down the street and it’s this performative manliness or worse, they actually believe it. But it makes existence so unsafe for women. It’s terrible.

I totally feel that. I have maybe 3-4 guys friends that, as far as I’m aware, don’t want to sleep with me - you included. But most of my guy friends, like almost all of them, have wanted that. It’s broken my heart again and again. And dude I have so many cat-calling stories. The funniest one, this guy stopped his car in the middle of an intersection to cat-call me.

I thought you were gonna say he got rear ended which would’ve been perfect.

Oh that would’ve. I just don’t understand, what makes a man be like, I’m gonna stop my car in the middle of the road, the middle of an intersection, to cat-call this girl.

I’ve actually seen screenshots of these guys who’ve convinced themselves it’s actually a compliment. Then they get offended when women don’t like it. I’ve even seen guys calling out other guys in discussion posts on the whole putting hands on hips or the back when trying to get past women. Like, would you do that to a guy or have you ever done that to a man as you’re walking past? Man’s ability to delude ourselves is remarkable. Like, I just need to get past it’s completely harmless.

“Women are stripped of agency, but men are often stripped of choice.”

Right. Like how do you naturally go past someone? You can say excuse me and not touch them. I think I’ve freaked guys out before because every so often I will touch them. I’ll put my hand on their back and they’ll jump. It’s the funniest thing, because they don’t expect it.

Then there’s women who stopped stepping aside for men on the sidewalk and have run into them.

Oh I’ve done that too. It’s really great. It’s like men have this privilege that I don’t quite understand.

I mean some guys definitely own it and embrace it but I wonder how much of it is cultural. Which is not to excuse it but how much are people just not thinking about it because it naturally happens. That should put pressure on them to stop and think, but much of this is subconsciously ingrained. It’s the expectation that you do automatically and I think that’s where the good conversations about masculinity and relations come out. It forces people to stop and think for a change….I’m gonna circle back to what we touched on at the beginning if that’s ok. There’s been a discussion about age appropriate sex ed. When it should be introduced, not using euphemisms, and introducing kids to consent even through hugs, giving them agency of their own bodies. If they don’t want to hug Grandpa Joe then that’s ok but it’s more about convincing Grandpa Joe that this kid doesn’t want a hug right now.

Mm hmm. I’ve been seeing these as well. I think they’re great discussion to be having.

Especially with girls and women who, I mean you know better than I do, have much more pressure in terms of self-agency. Even at your example of guys flinching when you’re going past. It’s much more ingrained that the guys can make those decisions where women are not afforded the same level of freedom.

It’s also, very common for women to placate men. Where they don’t really want to give them a hug or talk to them or kiss them or whatever, but they will still do it to get the guy to stop. That it’s just easier to do that than say no. I have done it multiple times with multiple men. There isn’t the guarantee of how a guy is going to respond, even if you know them. Some guys will be like, ok that’s fine you don’t want to, I respect you and it’s ok. Other ones can take huge offense at it. So, you just never really know. From there it starts to go into conversations of sexual assault and rape and the gray areas that exist in that and why it can happen. Sometimes it happens because girls are scared to say no.

It’s not the girl’s fault. It’s self-preservation. Like, it’s a real thing.

Absolutely, and it starts here. With conversations with little children about if they want a hug or not.

I’ve seen discussions online of men realizing how many sexual interactions they’ve had that were probably not consensual, but they weren’t forcing it. The woman wasn’t exactly trying to avoid confrontation, but wasn’t actually pursuing it. They were just trying to get through. And it’s a really important area because it’s these guys who would never physically force a woman to do something, but go right up to that line or pressure. Which is very similar. I think it gets very gray.

Exactly because so much of what we’re taught in school of what peer pressure is and how the guy is going to be super aggressive isn’t usually what it actually looks like. Even in just giving a hug. It’s more subtle and the pressure is this expectation where you’re like, I’m already in this situation I can either not do this. Which will do one of two things - de-escalate everything, he won’t be mad at me, and we’ll still be friends or acquaintances or whatever. Or it’s going to escalate everything and he’s going to be super aggressive like what you hear about. And depending on the relationship with that guy will also influence that decision. And part of it is that you think, well it’s not hurting him and it’s not really hurting me so what does it matter. But it does hurt you. It chips away at consent because you aren’t sticking up for yourself and your boundaries until you get to a point where you don’t know if you even have any.

“Men can be awesome.”

Yeah, I’ve watched analogies that people are putting out now about money and tea. Some really simple examples of what consent actually means. Like you offer someone tea and they say no, you’re not going to pour it down their throat. Tea in itself is good and they might’ve wanted it yesterday but it doesn’t mean they want it again today.

Yeah and this concept doesn’t have to exist just when you’re single or dating. Marital rape is a thing that exists….So I do want to say, men can be awesome. They should be awesome. Where they can be totally strong and take care of you and lead, but be soft and gentle and supporting of their woman. Like, yeah, she can do anything, but also he can take care of the kids and that dynamic can live together. These things we’re talking about don’t have to be one or the other.

Right. I think it goes back to that social pressure of what men think men are supposed to look like. Which is not that. It then leads into these defense mechanisms of attacking and hating women. Culture has kind of built up this he-man image that guys are supposed to measure themselves up against. The perfect image for men and women is so damaging in different ways….I think it was an article or discussion a while back that was talking about the differences in the male and female body in movies. With women it’s always sexual whereas with a man it’s almost always comedic. So it carries inherently at the fundamental level. Like a woman wheres a bikini and it’s slow motion so you can see everything. A guy wears a speedo and it’s a running gag.

Absolutely. I saw a Tik Tok actually, where this girl was talking about the first time she saw a naked man and she was disgusted. She couldn’t understand why because she was straight and attracted to men until she realized it was because of the media. In film we talk about the male gaze. Most films are shot this way. It’s how female bodies are highly sexualized and you can see absolutely everything but not the man’s. You rarely will see a guy from the waist down unless it’s for comedic purposes. It’s what’s made movies like Promising Young Woman so different.

Right, you just don’t see it as for women as you do for men. Even regardless of color, it’s all the male gaze in film of just how it looks at women and where the shots are angled.

And I know we’ve been talking about women but all of this happens to men too. I remember watching 90 Day Fiance and these guys threw a bachelor party and made the stripper dance on the bachelor. He’s telling them no, no, no. You can tell the stripper is just there because it’s her job, meanwhile his friends are laughing and acting like it’s no big deal. And I’m sitting there watching sexual assault happen.

Terry Crews talked about how hard it was for him to talk about his assault, that he wasn’t even taken seriously because not only is he a man but he’s very fit and tough looking. You know, women are stripped of agency but men are often stripped of choice. It’s this assumption that any man always wants sex no matter what. That’s exactly the harmful pressure that gets put on men. And if men are assaulted by a women then it’s not treated the same way because of course a guy’s going to be happy about it, that’s how it works.

Yeah but not every guy wants to have sex. Not every guy even likes you. It’s a personal decision. And it’s something that’s hard to see in culture because culture wants to say men are highly sexual things that always want sex and are always pursuing it. So, why would a guy say no? If they’re saying no something must be wrong with them.

Exactly.

I think I’ve heard that a lot of trauma happens with guys because they’re told they’re not masculine enough or not manly enough. Then they’re stuck with what does that mean if I’m not manly or not this or not that? What does that look like? It can range from everything from physicality, like I’ve heard guys talk about penis size all the way up to their muscles and whether they can provide for the family with their job. I think it’s all so detrimental for a guy. I could be wrong, you can tell me.

I think you’re 100% right. Luckily I haven’t faced that. I’m not your typical alpha male. I’m more the analytical, sensitive, thoughtful type just by default.

And as I’m currently processing that perhaps that trauma, from not being masculine enough, they then project onto women. Like I’ve had multiple guys throughout my life say various things to me about all those aspects. They project it onto me about what I should expect their masculinity should be like. Or what the ideal should be. Things like I’m the best you’ve ever had, only I can provide this, I’m the biggest, whatever. The fragility of the male ego is astounding.

I think they’re all self-perpetuating cycles. I think it’s either that men have been hurt or they’re afraid of being hurt by those things. Sometimes it’s men who have been challenged and made fun of for those things but also, I think we see it in entitled men. So it has to be preserved at all costs.

I know we have to wrap up soon, is there anything else you want to add?

The short version, there’s not enough open, honest, and informed conversations. And all of this takes place within a culture that has self-perpetuating structures that affect men and women and their interactions with each other. So, if we could take a step back, stop being defensive, and talk honestly then we could find that middle ground that’s less reactionary. One that has biblical and sensible rules where God blends health and safety at its core. Keeping consent and mindfulness and recognition and concern for other people.

We’ll be delving further into this topic hitting on feminism, the LGBTQ community, and how it looks within the context of marriage.

I hope you stay tuned and continue to follow me as I walk down this road.

Christy Windhausen 4/21/21 Christy Windhausen 4/21/21

Wanna Hear from Someone New?

Yellow and Orange Holi Festival Instagram Post-3.jpg

Starting next week we’ll be hearing from a variety of people on the topic of sex and sexuality.

This time it will be a bit different as we will be talking to people from different ages (getting perspectives from boomers to gen z), those that are married, single, and in-between, as well as straight to the LGBTQ+ community.

People will have similar questions, but not the exact same ones this time (granted, there might be overlap with similarities here or there) - and each post will be dedicated to one person at a time so it flows more like a conversation.

As a heads up, I will not be asking about sex lives or personal sexual experiences. If the interviewee wants to share any details of that nature then that is their choice. If it gets too explicit, I won’t include it.

The idea, as always, is to create an open and welcoming environment for people to share and discuss ideas without being ridiculed or shamed.

Let’s see how this goes!

Christy Windhausen 4/8/21 Christy Windhausen 4/8/21

Calling Out: Purity - Part 3

We’ve made it. The final part in this series. We’ve got a good discussion with two wonderful humans.

First up…hailing from LA, California, director Jace Hardwick. Then we fly across the country to Buffalo, NY for school teacher Lindsey Hawkins.

As always, they’ve been asked the same questions and if they didn’t answer it was because they answered it in a previous question or I didn’t ask.

Here we go!

What does purity mean to you?

LH: “I’ve come to understand purity as it is in scripture. Growing up it was never said point blank as to what it was. I thought it was just don’t have sex before marriage. As time has gone on I have understood that it is the belief system of what is going on in your mind and heart, not just keeping your legs shut. I have come to understand it through a relationship - if you don’t you will think God is keeping goodness from you. If you look at scripture, the word purity in Aramaic actually has to do with peace of mind. Yet over time it has become about rule following more than the place of our hearts and minds and a reassurance that His parameters are set for my good.”

JH: “I come from a Christian background so it was always don’t have sex before marriage. That’s what purity was. If we’re going the route of sex then that’s what I define it as - keeping yourself pure before marriage.”

Who taught you about purity? Was it explicitly said or was it implicit?

LH: “Both. Part of it has come through my own quiet time with the Lord - reading scripture, worship, listening to online sermons. You have to have alone time to have those intimate revelations. As well as with my relationships with others - doing life with other believers and talking to other married couples. Just doing life with other fellow believers. It’s a balance of those two things that has given me an understanding of dating and what purity is.”

JH: “I was always taught not to have sex to keep yourself pure because of the Bible but I never understood why and never looked into it. Then I became a Christian and started reading into the way Jesus taught about how a man and a woman should have relations with each other and how a marriage should be set up. I started to understand why it was that way. In my own personal life I’ve come to understand the backlash or the dangers of not staying pure. I’ve had sexual relationships and I’ve seen the downside of having multiple partners as well as the biological side to it. I’ve come to understand the implications of that as well. It’s a roundabout answer - it came in multiple forms. My parents taught me but I didn’t understand what they meant. So I learned on my own and saw the repercussions of that. Externally, I’ve read and understood what Jesus said via the Bible.”

Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught about purity?

LH: “In some ways yes and in some ways no. I do agree that sex is something meant for marriage however I do not agree with the basis that it came from which was rule following instead of understanding the heart of God. Which when you go by rule following, it brings confusion. I don’t agree with the belief that it came from when I grew up because it didn’t come from a solid foundation.”

JH: “I agree in the terms of a man and woman should wait ‘til marriage because I went down the route of who cares. I know that through failing in that area I have recognized why it is set up and how it is a blessing. And how it is designed, not just because it’s the way the Bible says but because of the biological reasons. There are chemical imbalances we share that draw us to each other. There’s a reason why it draws us toward each other and solidifies that bond. And why it’s important to save it for marriage.”

“I believe there is a God so there is a correct and right standard.”

What does purity culture mean to you?

LH: “A culture of honor and respect. That’s it. In scripture it has to do with peace of mind. The only way is by first being in relationship with Jesus and baptized in the Holy Spirit. Then being in community and being in a place where we can embrace the childlike identity of son or daughter. We embrace purity culture in our lives which is honor and respect.”

JH: “I don’t really know honestly. I guess if we’re talking about forcing purity on people or talking about sex in general or how no one needs to know…I can better talk about it in terms of relationships and dating and hookup culture because that effects me the most as I’m dealing with media and how people argue back and forth about that stuff. To me people in our culture are trying to deal with one another in what relationships should look like for all people. I would go back to the Bible and if there is no God and there is no standard, then we are simply making up what that standard should be. I think all humans are trying to figure out what that standard should be whether you believe in God or not. That’s why you have that back and forth about should we have hookups or not. Should we be making out, what about sleepovers, what about sex before marriage or in marriage? When there is no standard that’s set, that’s when we get that purity culture thing about what’s right and what’s not. I’ve learned a lot from C.S. Lewis who talks a lot about what is right in our culture vs others. In others women cover their faces because they view it as a way to save your brothers or sisters because we understand how men can be. But I can turn that around and say I know men in my life that don’t struggle with lust so how do we help them out?”

Do you feel as though purity culture effects you and your decisions?

LH: “Absolutely because my actions have the ability to hurt or strengthen another person so when it comes to the decisions I make as it relates to loving another person well, depending on my perception of another person, I can either build them up or hurt them. If purity culture is, in the way it should be, it calls me higher and has me take a step back in the way I treat people in certain situations. Even how I treat my brothers and sisters in the faith and my own family. You have to look at it as, am I doing this because I want to get something out of it or am I loving them the way Christ would want me to?”

JH: “Yes, because I believe there is God so there is a correct and right standard. I have to go back and look at the teachings of Jesus to see where and how He set up the church and marriage. For me now compared to how I used to live it’s easier because I have something to look at as a guide. I used to be shooting in the dark using different people’s opinions and thoughts. It’s like trying to navigate using everyone else’s definitions vs when you have a standard then there is something to point toward.”

What do you think are the effects of purity culture on today’s generation?

LH: “I have two thoughts - it depends on people’s definition. If someone has a healthy understanding and what it’s actually intended for, it allows them to keep their emotions in check and be more intentional. It’s more quality over quantity with relationships. If it’s unhealthy, it can cause people to fall into sinful lifestyles when the understanding is I have to follow these rules and if I don’t then I’m bad. That’s an orphan mentality and it rules their patterns to fall into those things especially when it comes to sexual things. It could really hurt them and lead them to a place where they would do things they never thought they would or hurt them in a way they never thought they could be.”

JH: “I think in America, and I can’t speak for the rest of the world, but what I’ve noticed in our generation, especially for social media because we’re in social media, it’s great because we express ourselves and everybody’s open - but we’re not understanding how we are effecting each other. How women can effect men and how men can effect women when it comes to lust and things like that. Helping one another to keep each other pure in your own mind. If you want to talk about Jesus even more, how He talks about sinning is more than the actions we put out. It’s how we think as well. I think purity culture, and there are so many routes, the hookup culture is the one I can touch on the most about why it’s so bad. It had a profound effect on me and those around me. Men not stepping up and being real men - I’ll speak on the men’s side of things - there’s a difference in being a “nice guy” and good Godly man that wants to take care of the woman. To touch on the science side of it, you are creating chemical imbalances with one another that are worse than cocaine addictions - which in the terms of marriage is great. It’s designed that way but outside of that it can become so dangerous. That’s why we get so brokenhearted when we breakup. We can’t explain it. It didn’t work out and well, we didn’t agree, but I still love them and I still want to be with them even though it was so messy and I was so lost in it. I think when I dated someone and we didn’t have sexual relations and we did breakup, the breakup was so easy and simple vs before. When sex was involved it got incredibly messy. It’s like why do I still feel attached to this person even though we’re not on the same path? I definitely see the broad scope as how it affected me and I see it with the people around me as well. I don’t know if as a Christian, non-Christians should be held to the same standards, regardless there are things in the natural observable universe that we can see. These chemicals and things are very powerful and it should not be taken lightly regardless if you believe there is a God or not.”

“You are creating chemical imbalances with one another that are worse than cocaine addictions.”

Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught by purity culture?

LH: “I agree with what I was taught in my 20s not with what was in my adolescence to teen years. That was all about rules and not an actual relationship with God. As I got older and took my faith more seriously I wanted to steward purity as opposed to those awkward teen years which are difficult to begin with. When you have people who mean well but who don’t have a healthy understanding of it themselves, they are going to repeat those unhealthy patters and you’re gonna struggle. They didn’t know better so I didn’t know better.”

Do you see purity culture’s effects in media, your hometown, your family, or your friends?

LH: “Absolutely. I totally do. I have seen it in main stream media as not only something that has been mocked but as judgmental, which is dangerous. We’ve entered into a culture which is dangerous in regards to sex parameters that says you can’t judge me with what I do. If we have an understanding of the God that set these things then if we hear harsh words from a friend it won’t be seen critically. We need more people like that. We need more people who do that - people who stand up. Who learn a culture of honor and respect. If we can’t honor and respect people then it translates into what we think is permissible and not permissible when it comes to sexual activities.”

JH: “It affects me, my friends, and social media. If we look at this through the Christian lens - we talk about lust and how social media is just an algorithm that pushes what you want to see. My feed is just Christian Tik Toks. Before it was women dancing and basically women being half naked. There is a problem with that because the expectation of reality is now blurred and that becomes dangerous. It goes into pornography - which we don’t have to go down that route - even in social media people are reflecting a falsehood about themselves in a sense. At least from a man’s perspective - you’re seeing people do things that trigger lustful desires on people you’ve never met and it subverts expectation and blinds you to reality - and to what relationships are supposed to look like. To what it means to be attracted to a woman. You can be attracted to them, that’s not a bad thing but when looks fade, what do you have left? You need to look at their heart and character. If all we’re seeing is physically based and not their heart - and we’re projecting the best and not the worst, it’s subverting expectations. We’re so quick to be like I love this person then hookup culture then comes the real dating. That’s not how it’s supposed to be set up. It’s more let’s hang out, get to know each other, really listen to what you believe, what do you not believe. Love is a choice. Love becomes a choice. It’s not a feeling, it’s driven by action then encompassed by feeling. You’re not gonna love someone everyday, it’s a commitment. You get married and have sex, it drives you toward each other. It’s different than what I see in social media and with my friends where it’s like I feel like I love you. We connect and then I get to know you, oh no we don’t merge on a lot of our thoughts, beliefs, and ideas. But now we’re in this together and it’s messy.”

What kind of moral, identity, or self-worth implications do you think purity culture has placed on people?

LH: “Again, this is two sided - healthy and unhealthy. From a healthy perspective it challenges you to see yourself the way God sees you because in Jesus doing what He did, God sees you the way Jesus does. From a healthy perspective we are able to walk in the identity that Jesus died and rose again to resurrect in us to be the fullness of who we are rather than us following rules. An unhealthy perspective can set an expectation that people are never good enough for themselves and they can try to follow the rules. They try and eventually people give up because they are missing the component of total heart surrender and community.”

JH: “It definitely affects me as I’m in the media industry. As a guy you see all the movies and the guy who’s super ripped. There’s Captain America who’s perfect and has a good sense of moral direction. As a guy, at least, you start comparing yourself physically - I think women do it too. I go to the gym and see these guys who are shredded, they look great. I don’t look like that. I’m this 5’7” small man and that’s not me. I think there’s this expectation for how you look first, then who you are. Especially because I’m on camera with what we do, I want to make sure I look good - which feeds into the problem of always putting on your best face and not really showing the reality. I think about dating and being a Christian and I’ve had relationships where I’ve lowered my standards to meet theirs and then fall victim to that. It’s nobody’s fault but my own because culture wants to say this is how we express love. This is how we should date. Why not hookup? Do you not love me? That can tear you down especially on the guy because you women are attractive. You guys get us somehow. You get under our skin. As a guy I think our sex drive can be more intense than women’s can be. When you’re a pretty girl and you have expectations and you want to get physical - as a man I’ve had to reshape how I want to carry myself in this culture. What standards I need to set for myself and carry that regardless if someone needs to get physical or not. I want to obey God and I fear God and I love God so I don’t want to do that. And the blessing from not doing that is way better in the long run than my short term feeding of the flesh and the desire I want in the moment. It also makes it hard because you want to hit certain mile stones and when the rest of the world is not like that, it’s difficult.”

“Rules rarely motivate anybody to change.”

Do you think your religion or lack thereof has something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree?

LH: “The New Testament identifies believers as saints more than it does Christians. When I talk to people about my faith I rarely use the word Christian because it has so many negative connotations. With purity culture, Christianity can be taken so negatively as it has become this unattainable expectation rather than what we grow toward. As we see ourselves as saints in place of wholeness we can see purity as something to be excited about rather than this I don’t know what to do and my thoughts are all over the place and my sex desire is too great and I don’t know how. We take a step back and surrender to God, He’s the one who created our sex drive and He never judges us for those things. He wants to be invited in to teach us how to better steward it. The Christian faith has painted it as a seemingly judgmental place but when you bring it to a place of being in relationship with Jesus it can bring freedom and an excitement that you can grow in.”

JH: “It’s kinda like what I’ve been saying already. Regardless if you’re a believer or not I think you can see in the observable universe there are causes and effects to what we do. I think Christianity and Yahweh, the God of the Bible, and Jesus of Nazareth set a standard that we can look to hit the target every time vs if you don’t. I think we are shooting in the dark and that’s when we’re getting into human flaw. We have to be careful with how you feel vs what’s in actual reality but when you say I feel this is right for purity culture, I feel I can do this. If there’s no standard then yeah, everyone’s right. If you say I think this is how relationships should be, if there’s no standard that we can look at then you are right but is it the best result for you? I feel like I’m touching on both things. Yes, religion, Christianity, can give us a clear cut here’s how it should be and in my mind can make it a lot easier. If you aren't a believer you can look at the observable universe and see what is the best cause and effect.”

Do you think your parents or boomers in general have something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree?

LH: “At least from my parents they grew up in a home, if we’re honest, where they never really got “a talk”. Back in their day it was more of an expectation to save sex ‘til marriage. It was a cultural expectation and because of that they didn’t necessarily need a strong faith understanding. It was more the norm. That’s amazing that it was the norm. But I disagree because if you are coming at it with I can’t do this until marriage there can be an unhealthy desire for it. While sex and marriage are great, the friendship will sustain it, not the sex.”

JH: “Hard for me to say. I would agree with my parents with how they raised me and then I didn’t listen and then I was like oh you were right. I think what is sad is what the older generation had that we don’t is courtship. From the guy’s side - taking her out on dates, meeting the father, asking the father’s permission for her hand in marriage - there’s a lot to that that really helps a man grow and understand the responsibility and severity of what it means to be in a relationship. I think the older generation, when it came to dating, they viewed it as when you get your driver’s license you really want to make sure you do it well because it’s a responsibility and a privilege. We live in an age now where we lost all the lead up for getting your license and we have these people driving cars that shouldn’t be driving cars. You have a lot of accidents and there’s a lot of mess to that because there weren’t the proper steps. Our generation decided to skip all the dates and they wanted to get into the physical and feelings. They had a route of I’m gonna take you on a date, do we like each other, let’s take it slow. Even if you wanna say people didn’t save themselves before marriage, at least they were taking the steps of let’s go on dates and let me respect you first. They set that standard that we don’t have today and that’s sad. I’m not saying everyone in America does that, I think it’s a lost art. I wouldn’t say it’s completely gone, I think we still believe in dates. Between the people I dated before I was a believer it was more Netflix and chill or let’s go hike and the recent person I dated was one where she respected herself and knew what type of guy she wanted to date. I also saw it with her dad. He set that standard for self-respect which made me have to meet that standard and it was awesome. It was so uncomfortable. At the end of it was like this guy that I wanted to be and in my world, in my zone, I don’t think that standard was set. Then I saw a new standard that was so high I was like huh I think I’ve been missing it. I think there’s something innate, something built in us, and when I started meeting that standard it just felt right and good, even when it was uncomfortable. Culturally I wasn’t raised that way. I rose to it and all of a sudden I was a trying to actively court her, take her on dates and dress up. Meet her dad and her family. Not just impress her but her father who was being a good dad by being like, whoever is dating my daughter needs to hit this standard and she will not date anyone less. It’s great pressure and it comes from the woman’s side of setting it. Guys need to rise to it and because she set it it made me want to rise to it. She helped me grow in so many ways. I tell so many people that even though we broke up, it was my favorite relationship I’ve ever had because I learned and grew in so many ways. It was because she helped me in that. Her setting her own high standard like that helped me to reshape and resize my own standard which I would never want to take back.”

Do you think men and women are taught/told different things about purity? If so what and do you agree?

LH: “Yes, definitely. I think with men there is more talk about I guess restricting and restraining themselves. In the culture that paints men as the enemy with the excuse of female empowerment it has created this culture of fear that healthy men have to walk in when it comes to healthy sexuality. The world is so hyper focused as what men could do wrong. I think it’s hard for them to even know how to walk and be seen as a threat because they’ve been treated that way. For women, it’s close your legs, don’t wear certain things. I think with women it’s very shame based. Not all the time but while what you wear is important it has to come from a place of identity. While believing that God is a father who wants to protect you, and there’s not enough of that, it needs to be motivated by a God who is a father and wants to protect you.”

JH: “I think in high school as a guy you would be praised for how many women you could sleep with where a women would be shamed for it. I think both are wrong. I think we are all people trying to figure out how to work with one another and on the man’s side - in the context of how men are taught - in high school I was taught that women want you to pursue them aggressively. But that can be taken wrong and there’s a difference with I want you to pursue me and I want to be a man that knows what I want and I want to be clear about my intentions. That can be skewed where I will pursue you no matter what you tell me and just power through it. I think we’re also told not to express our feelings as much and take on as much as we can. That in a relationship it’s supposed to be a team effort. I think there are standards that the guy needs to meet. I do think men have a certain role and women have a role. Men need to step up more. We need to be leaders that can come in different forms and you have to pursue well. You have to listen well. We are supposed to be servants and the Bible says to lay down your life. We’re literally supposed to serve and taking care of the people we’re trying to pursue. I don’t think that’s really taught. It’s just be macho, just pursue. Even if the girl is mad you’re still supposed to go after them and that’s all they want. There’s some truth to that but that doesn’t mean don’t listen. Be a strong leader but that does not mean don’t listen, don’t take care of her. Understand where she’s coming from. The best lies that are told are the ones rooted in truth and that’s the scariest thing. I was always taught to respect women and be a good, nice guy but was never really taught what that means. I think the God in the Bible shows that a good symbiotic relationship is I’m serving you 100% and you’re serving me 100%. You want me to thrive and I want you to thrive.”

Anything you want to elaborate on or talk about that hasn’t been asked?

LH: “Without knowing your identity as a beloved son or daughter, purity will do nothing for you. This has everything to do with believing in the God behind everything you are rather than performance and following rules. Rules rarely motivate anybody to change. A loving relationship however is the catalyst that will motivate men and women to fight for what’s right, love and honor people more fully. Walking in confidence as they step into the vision that God has given them for their lives.”

JH: “As a guy I just want to know what a girl thinks.”

Wrap up

I want to thank everyone who agreed to be interviewed over this past month. I had a blast hearing from everyone about their thoughts and feelings toward purity and purity culture. I hope you all had a good time hearing from them.

To me, purity and purity culture is the starting point for most conversations that we have. It pervades every part of life - not just sex and drinking - from racism to mental health to the language you use. Purity is the starting point for where your heart and mind are at when you come to relationships and moments in life.

There is a lot more to this and if you would like to have a deeper discussion with me on my views of purity and purity culture - reach out! I’d love to talk with you.

We are moving on from here to another topic. Check in next week to see what that will be!

Christy Windhausen 4/2/21 Christy Windhausen 4/2/21

Calling Out: Purity - Part 2

We’re back with part 2 of this 3 part series. This week we have a bit of a different take on purity. Grab your cup of tea, coffee, whatever and get ready for a ride.

On the mic tonight heralding from Seattle, WA is screenwriter Gabby Gore. We head straight down the coast to LA for animator Casey White. Finally, we pop over to Texas for screenwriter Chandler McGovern.

Just like before, the questions have remained the same. If they did not answer they either chose not to answer, they answered it in a previous question, or I didn’t ask.

Without further ado….

What does purity mean to you?

GG: “That’s a big question that I’ve never thought of before. If you had asked me that in high school I would’ve said something similar to society’s idea which is innocence and maintaining a sense of, I don’t know, morality. I think now that I’m older and I’ve experienced the world, my definition now is that it’s one of the covert systems of the patriarchy. It’s a weird masogony thing women harbor to critique themselves and other women. I think there’s a sense of innocence that comes with it but it’s been used as a weapon to keep women in line in these patriarchal systems.”

CW: “Two things - first is the purity of people. It’s not clean or good but authenticity. The authentic pure. When you’re a child, there’s naivety and childish. They are original as in they haven’t been influenced yet - it’s that unadulterated, not negative or positive, they’re untouched. Not to say that it’s good, being a really good person and keeping yourself from alcohol and sex - I think more of a child running around playing with butterflies in a Target parking lot. Second - on a cosmic scale, pure is like an environment that hasn’t been touched by man. Fresh powder [snow] is pure. If I were to run through it, it wouldn’t be pure anymore. You have to look at the opposite of manipulation - really, I know what purity isn’t.”

CM: “Purity to me is totally equal with sex. I never heard it without that context. It’s the image of the white wedding dress and all that implies. I’m not necessarily thinking this is clean and this is dirty, it’s about a woman’s purity and not a man’s virginity. It’s something that I bought into when I was younger and I fully believed that I had to wait ‘til marriage and it was this massive sin if you don’t and as I’ve gotten older I’ve come to see it’s not that black and white. It doesn’t mean it’s something good but something used as control.”

Who taught you about purity? Was it explicitly said or was it implicit?

GG: “Implicit. Definitely not by my parents, we never had a purity or sex talk. My parents are very liberal but once I turned 13 my dad said, ‘I feel like you can make your own decisions’ and he let me pick my own path with God and Jesus. We don’t really talk about religion, no lessons were ever forced by him. Everything I heard [explicitly] was from the church. It was never a religious thing though. It was never a God shames you, it was this is what happens in your privacy and you don’t need to talk about it. I think growing up, the idea of purity came from the media. I remember in middle school it was a huge fad with purity rings when Miley Cyrus and the Jonas Brothers were showing theirs off. I came into this rebellious mindset because I wanted to. I wanted to learn about it [sex] even though I wasn’t doing it and appear like I knew everything. I lived in Idaho at the time - there were so many Mormons - who are lovely people, I just don’t agree with what they believe. They were so anti-anything and had this disbelief that you don’t own your body and only your husband can touch your body down there. I was like, this is stupid.”

CW: “I think you’re taught and you have those bliss moments when you’re at the ski lodge. You see those angelic moments. I have been taught, maybe not by people who said it explicitly, but by people’s actions. I think loudness - if I hang out with those who are loud I think, that’s not peace. I look at the actions of those I hang out with and when I’m alone, finding what’s blissful. It’s kind of Buddhist - this riddle of life. You have to catch those brief moments, it’s always in the background and it takes a little meditation and zen. You have to clear your mind and then you’re sitting there in the zone. once you realize it then you’re like oh shit I have it. That’s when you lose it and have to get it back. I went to church as a kid and I don’t think that had anything to do with it. Church just taught me about rules, not peace.”

CM: “A little bit of both. I went to church when I was younger and lived in a really Christian conservative suburban area. Even when we weren’t talking about God and the Bible and what was expected, it was always present. Until I got to high school it never even occurred to me that someone couldn’t wait ‘til marriage. I even went to a Christian college and no one talked about it because we all knew what the rules were. In school the only time we had sex education was when we had “the talk”. I don’t remember it very well. I think it focused on our periods and to wait or we’ll get STD’s or pregnant. Abstinence was all that was talked about.”

Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught about purity?

GG: “I disagree a lot and I still kinda disagree with purity culture today. It’s being a lot more covert than what it was in middle school. It was being in your face with purity rings and saving yourself ‘til marriage. The celebs who pushed it were very much about it being my choice and it should be a meaningful experience with your husband and I was like that’s bullshit. I had a lot of self-love issues in middle school and high school. I felt I was unworthy of romantic love and if I never found that then I would never have sex. I was a horny bitch and I was like, I can’t die a virgin! I wanted to know this and I was under this impression that no one was gonna find me attractive or marry me - that was one of the reasons I was against it. I do find some of the tactics interesting because they’ve changed it. Instead of don’t engage in hook up culture, it depends on the person. Like, if you are using [sex] as a form of addiction or self-harm then yes, I agree but also, it’s saying you have to be in a loving long term relationship for sex. I think for those who can enjoy the act of sex and it’s consensual and they aren’t harming themselves or others then why does it matter what they do?”

CW: “I agree, erm, when I was in the church as a Catholic, I didn’t have any cognizance to apply it to life. It was only when I left the church that I did. By the time I started thinking about life and formulating my philosophies on life, was it then that I started finding things. I do agree because I don’t think I had found anything yet. I bounced around a lot. I ran from philosophy to different philosophy and it’s ok to take different pieces from things - you take what you need in life and that’s where I am now. That’s what I know. I’m still open to finding purity and it’s a constant thing to what you’re seeing and knowing about. It’s just a journey.”

CM: “I disagree because it created this really deeply ingrained guilt and shame about my own sexuality from a very early age that I didn’t even confront until I was a junior or senior in college. I remember being terrified of dating because a boy might want to move faster or want sex and I’d have to say no. I was so scared of that. When I started realizing that waiting wouldn’t make or break my chances in heaven but it was more about controlling women. I tried voicing those opinions and tried to start those conversations but I got shut down every time. My senior year of college I was reading Amy Poehler’s book and there was a chapter about losing her virginity that said, “Keep your virginity for as long as you can, until it starts to feel weird to you. Then just get it over with.” That really resonated with me. I went to my roommate and she shut me down so fast like that’s a sin, I can’t believe you’re even thinking that. She doesn’t buy into that anymore. Yeah, even that I was so scared because of shame and fear I didn’t talk to anyone for years. I don’t think that’s healthy, I really don’t. They put so much pressure on every budding relationship it’s so hard to have those kind of conversations instead of going at the pace that makes sense for us.”

“It’s a paradox. If purity is untouched then culture is touching. There’s no such thing as purity culture.”

What does purity culture mean to you?

GG: “It’s a way to police women and not necessarily control. I think it’s still a way to tell women what is and what isn’t ok to do or want with their bodies. When 50 Shades of Grey came out, they discovered there was a huge audience that was desperate for that kind of content. Now there are definitely issues with this book and it doesn’t portray the BDSM community in a positive light but there are women who want it. And instead of talking about legitimate criticisms it talked down to women would actually be interested in that subject matter. I think when it comes to purity culture and the harmful views of culture, the views on sex, they like to say you are wrong for even liking things like this. They condemn women who want to embrace things like this or anything but a monogamous vanilla relationship. It’s hurting women. They’re saying it’s fine if you want to wait ‘til marriage but it needs to mirror what sex in marriage looks like. It’s fine if you want to have sex before marriage but if you have anything that’s not heteronormative then it’s not ok. I still see that now as we move to a more sex positive culture. I see so many teen shows where the whole plot is keeping the girl from losing her virginity. Usually she’s in it 110% and wants to do it but someone else tells her to stop because they think she will take the wrath of shame. I want to see a woman in a show who wants it 110% and there are no negative effects. I get it if she’s not all in or is being manipulated but if this is something you are consenting to, at the end of the day this is your body.”

CW: “[laughs] I would say it’s a paradox. If purity is untouched then culture is touching. It’s the idea that culture is telling people what to do and purity is just being. If you tell people what to be - there’s no such thing as purity culture. This is Catcher In The Rye. It sounds like, fuck, I don’t know. It sounds like someone’s trying to be pure really hard and that’s the complete opposite. It’s like trying to be zen. It’s like you’re making these rules - there’s not one way to find purity and if you’re having these people who are making these rules - think of the 70s when people wanted to find peace, it quickly directed you to have to do things a certain way and people were forming large communes. It’s a quick way to lose your path. I think doctrines are way to lose your purity. Go to the evangelical way that tells you more than that, they say, ‘woah, woah let’s not do that’. Alan Watts said it’s like “making rough water smooth with a flat iron.”

CM: “It’s deeply ingrained in the church because I grew up in the south and to me, it feels like the norm that you have to wait ‘til marriage and if you don’t…it’s that Mean Girls quote, “Don’t have sex or you’ll get pregnant and die”. It’s also really toxic for growth and the self-exploration that you need to be a healthy, fully functioning, independent adult with a full view of sex and relationships.”

Do you feel as though purity culture affects you and your decisions?

GG: “I don’t do things or choose things in order to stick it to purity culture. It might inform my decision because it’s a reaction to it but I don’t let it in itself be the driving force.”

CW: “It shouldn’t. If by purity culture we are talking about humans that are telling you what to do then I will see that and get angry. If I see it too often, I will try to understand them but I will reject them. I don’t want to overdramatize my role in the world but we are a speck of dust and I’m only going to be a speck. I’m like you have to be dust man. They just make noise. I try not to get angry, you don’t need that all the time. It’ll cloud your judgement and it’s something you have to let go of.”

CM: “Yes. I do. I think, you know, the more I become aware and the more I educate myself on it I have started to dismantle it in my brain that I have been built on guilt and shame. It has played a really big role on the relationships I’ve had and haven’t had.”

What do you think are the effects of purity culture on today’s generation?

GG: “Because it’s trying to be more covert, it’s messing with their heads with what they think is ok. Before if someone released a photo without your consent it was shared and that was your fault. What were you thinking to even be naked. Now, we’re moving to whatever photo is shared, they’re the asshole. That’s how it should’ve always been. As we’re gaining more awareness about our bodies, we’re listening to victims and those with sex trauma - the more liberated we are the more sneaky the patriarchy has to be. It’s trying to be more shameful. Like, if you are trying to be anything that’s not monogamous, people don’t like that because they don’t understand polyamory. It’s all very heteronormative. There isn’t any space for the LGBTQ community and their voice. If we’re not giving them a space then it feels really, really taboo.”

CW: “We’re all on the Internet and looking for community and somewhere to belong or something to believe in. Whatever comes up on your for you page, you don’t know what you will absorb. We are listening and the louder the voice of purity culture is - well we make decisions. We can ignore it, be a part of it, or reject it. Of course we are a part of it in this modern globalized community. I like to think of Spain because they cleaned their slate after WWII when Marco and fascism died. Spain saw that and said, we’re just gonna forget it even happened. So, they erased it and forgave everyone who said they were sorry and wouldn’t do it again. They didn’t teach about Hitler or fascism. Now, there’s a revival of fascism and they’re alt-right. They’re very good at making propaganda and sending it out. There’s neofascism rising because they said, we are pure. Reporters go to children and ask if they know what fascism is and the kids say, ‘who’s Marco? What’s fascism?’ They're saying this is the pure party and we can only be this. These kids who are untouched or pure are now showing up to these parties and everyone is pure. [laughs] Wait, it’s a clashing of purity. Both sides think they are pure.”

CM: “I feel like I sometimes understand Gen Z the most. Some of them are so much older than us [Millennials]. I honestly don’t really know. I think moving from Texas to LA was so helpful because I was able to meet people who didn’t grow up in purity culture and had sex positive education. It created more confident adults. We need to strive for less guilt and less shame. I think Millennials and Zillennials internalize that until they realize they don’t need to carry it and that’s not healthy. For example I have a cousin who is so uncomfortable with her body and I think it’s part of purity culture. She didn’t even know how to tighten her bra straps because it covers her boobs and that’s a sex organ. And that’s an extreme example.”

“I think purity culture is a way to police women - to tell them what is and what isn’t ok to do with their bodies.”

Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught by purity culture?

GG: “I disagree. It makes me feel like there’s only one way to see it - a proper sexual person - and I don’t agree with that. I was never a wait ‘til marriage type of person, I was always a pretty sexual person and that was important to me in a relationship. I think if I had waited ‘til I was in a committed relationship then I’d still be a virgin and I’m not ok with that. I haven’t found Mr. Right and I don’t know when I will. I see myself and I might not find Mr. Right until my late 30s and that’s ok. But the thought that I might not find Mr. Right until my late 30s and not have sex until then is not ok.”

CM: “I disagree wholeheartedly because I don’t think it prepared me to be a sexually active adult. I think if I had waited ‘til marriage then I wouldn’t have been prepared for marriage. I felt for Daphne in Bridgerton and I know a lot of people made fun of her, but I think her character was real. It would’ve happened. I don’t think it’s good to boil it down that women have to be subservient or that only men want sex. It’s damaging to women because when women have those feelings they don’t know what to do with it. You shouldn’t feel shame for being human. I can’t stress enough how much shame is tied to this.”

Do you see purity culture’s effects in media, your hometown, your family, or your friends?

GG: “In media, it’s being covert. I think it’s so interesting with my friends and I think it’s purely geography, the culture you grew up in. My friends in Seattle have completely different life plans and goals. None of them have any plans to get married in the next few years. I have friends who haven’t ever been in committed relationships and have no plans to do so. We’re all comfortable with that. We’re totally fine with living our lives and we’re fine with it. I went to grad school and met others whose worlds are so different. Like, they’re the last one of their friends to get married and they think, what’s wrong with me, I thought I would be further along, I thought I would have kids by now. It’s so interesting to see how that idea of relationships has impacted their sense of time. That was not the world I lived in Seattle. It also talks about being a mom and this myth that if you don’t have kids by 33 then your eggs with shrivel up and die. The infertility talk is always around the woman and not the guy. It might be the guy. There’s also this idea that you should only be having sex if you want to have a kid and that’s not true. If we’re gonna be shaming them now, then we’re gonna scare them that they won’t have kids unless they start now.”

CW: “Yeah. I grew up in a small country town where you’re a farmer and you are told that you believe in God and that’s the easiest, widespread, universal culture that tells you right or wrong. There are people who attach themselves to that. My mother is a part of that and she tries her best to stick to the rules. I have a friend who is a nihilist who doesn’t believe in anything and who’s negative, which is the first step. In his rejection he thinks he’s haughty and true. He surrounds himself with that and he’s angsty. In my immediate surroundings? Yeah. My brothers were raised Catholic like me and now they don’t think about church. They were raised on a bedrock of it, it subconsciously sticks with them. You get a mix of people who are here who are told rules they believe will lead them to purity and others who are working who are trying to make money and trying to do the right thing - trying to make a living. We’re told by capitalism that’s the only way to do it.”

CM: “Yeah I see it everywhere. I think I see it less with the friends I have now but more with my friends that I grew up with because it affected everything we did. With the boys we dated or didn’t date because we were scared to go into that realm. You see it all the time in media and television even if it’s so subtle. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head was Margot Robbie in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. How she was sex symbol but made to look childlike, with this childlike innocence. It was like purity incarnate.”

What kind of moral, identity, or self-worth implications do you think purity and purity culture has placed on people?

GG: “Your morality is tied to sexual history and how you choose to present yourself sexually. I think of all the backlash when the song WAP came out and the comments those same people make when male artists objectified women in their songs. It’s the whole definition of Catch 22 that if you’re a man you have to have lots of sex and women have to be virgins. That in order to be a man you have to assert your sex dominantly and women will be whores. We still see that now when a woman tries to reclaim that power and sexuality, there’s a pushback from men that you shouldn’t do that or they don’t like that. That every decision I make is for a male’s attention but our decision’s aren’t based off of them. I think there’s still a whole sense of morality to it. Like Cardi B is not taken seriously when she tries to bring up real issues but if someone keeps their issues private they’ll listen to them. It’s a similar thing. A better example, Kim Kardashian. There are actual criticisms you can have against her like her cultural appropriations but the main argument they always use is that she got famous from a sex tape and the thing is that it was consensual sex tape. It just got leaked against her knowledge. If you’re gonna believe women then you have to believe all women. And if that’s what you’re using to knock her down then that’s pure purity culture and it’s patriarchal bullshit.”

CW: “Immediately I think of drinking and drugs. It’s funny because marijuana is the least lethal drug and drinking is so much more lethal. Subconsciously it’s like don’t do marijuana but they make bars a fucking thing where you can go kill yourself - and don’t get me started on sugar, it’s worse than alcohol. Of course everyone says don’t drink when you’re a kid but at a certain age you can drink and they’re like sure - it’s an odd thing that people tell you to be pure of. Slut shaming is a big thing. It’s still a joke with hookers and prostitution. Being a janitor is less pure - I don’t know why certain jobs are less pure than others. I don’t know why going to college, getting an apartment, and having all this debt is more pure. But being bohemian, since it’s not the traditional thing, is impure. I don’t know why men sleeping around is touted and advertised as normal but when women do it, they can’t. And we’re being more broad here. Purity is what’s not looked down on. Everyone has a little bit in them and you have these things you say that are good and right and are pure. Immediately there’s a tick because you have biases created by culture and they are instinctive, even if you don’t say it. I do think there are inherent structures that everyone is told what it is to be a good human being. If you see it, you are put off by it and that self-worth thing is affected by it. Worse than that, if you are unemployed in a capitalist society you think, I have no worth because I have no job. Purity culture is just telling people what is right and wrong. It’s an easy doorway to make a value judgement on people and easier on that you are making judgements on yourself.”

CM: “Inherently it lowers people’s self-worth because you build your self-worth by denying an essential part of you which is sexuality which you either never confront or you do and you feel feelings that are totally normal. I don’t think it’s right to deny oneself in that way. It’s important to treat sex properly, that you can get a disease and can get pregnant, but you shouldn’t deny it altogether. It’s a very intimate act and you should be consenting adults but you shouldn’t be denying it and that’s what purity culture asks you to do. When 50% of marriages end in divorce you can’t say that marriage is the end all be all. You have to look for companionship and partnership.”

“You shouldn’t feel shame for being human.”

Do you think your religion or lack thereof has something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree with it?

CW: “Yes and no. If you are a Taoist monk you will be asked, ‘what are you’ and you will answer, ‘I’m a human’. They’re very hard to talk about. If you go to a priest they are so specific because they’re thinking about it a lot. If you are a theist and you believe in something you are immediately setting up rules in your mind, economics besides, as to what is good and right and pure. Atheists are people that just don’t think about it that often.”

CM: “Girl, yeah. I feel like Christinas are at the forefront of purity culture and not in the good way. They tell us not to judge and then they go ‘I’m gonna judge you’.”

Do you think your parents or boomers in general have something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree with it?

GG: “I think it depends on the boomer. I think they are still trying to sus out what they are ok with. They are forward with accepting new thoughts and liberal boomers are going to be more accepted and open. I’m a child of a messy divorce so when it comes to the endgame of purity culture, as in getting married, my parents are not pushing for me to do so. They more want me to figure out my life, however they want grandkids but they also expressed that they don’t want me to have kids out of wedlock. I am confusion [laughs]. I don’t think it’s purity culture with my mom because nowhere in my family did they say Jesus wants you to wait ‘til marriage, they just didn’t talk about it. I don’t think it was a religious thing, I think it was a prude thing. It’s just where she’s at. I know my mom gets weirded out if a couple has a baby before they get married. She’s like that’s out of order. Specifically my mom thinks that marriage is the true last word that proves you are 110% committed to someone. That the most important relationship you have with someone is with your spouse, excluding kids, that’s the one that holds the ultimate weight. When I have gone on trips with friends she is always second guessing my decisions and I think if I was married and said my husband and I were going somewhere she’d say ok, have fun. It’s just this huge emphasis on marriage and it being the ultimate thing.”

CW: “I think they’re the first to talk about it. Again once you start talking about it, you lost it. That generation was the group after the greatest generation of the greatest war who took down the baddest bad guy - and then they had children [the boomers]. They tried to live up to that promise and they either did and that’s the nuclear family or you get the hippies or you get Vietnam and people with PTSD and the dive into nihilism and this dive into how purity culture began. The ramifications after WWII, everyone agreed that they were good and right - we’re the third generation down - often the boomers who reject and are trying to stick to their values want a comfy blanket. That’s what the boomers are doing in the face of purity culture. They go, no I’m right and I’m good and I’m going to be safe and sound and I’m not going to be sad. People cling to that because it makes the feel safe and we are living in a generation that is beginning to question the effects of those who are screaming at us from their blankets. I’m not saying you should take off your blanket, everyone has a blanket - even I have a blanket.”

Do you think men and women are taught/told different things about purity? If so what? Do you agree?

GG: “I think there is still the narrative with women that you should be in a committed relationship and it sucks because men can’t get pregnant. Anything that happens is your fault and you have to deal with it. Men inflict it and women have to deal with it. There’s a lot of fear. At the end of the day you have to deal with a child, if that’s what comes from it. So many men send dick pics and you don’t see them losing their jobs but if a nude photo of a woman leaks it ruins her life. I think there’s still whole things with men that are patriarchal - that the only way to see a man is to conquer, so they get away with a lot of things sexually and they don’t have to deal with a lot of things sexually either. STD’s effect both male and female but guys can get a woman pregnant and never know he has a kid. It leaves an awful power balance. In order for self-preservation you have to be pure and if you are a woman who is interested in sex you have this whole society telling you not to. It’s so dumb.”

CW: “Yeah, I think there’s a difference in what you’re told. Women are still seen as sexual objects and are told in certain places that you have to get a man or not. You are told certain things about what is good sexually and men are not told that. They are told nothing. They are engrained with - they dick around. They joke around about sex and send photos. They are not told about their sexual role or identity. This all comes with a grain of salt since I am a man. We are not often told how to be seen or how to act. We are not told how to act unless you go to church then everyone is given the base line. In the Bush Era everyone went to high school and was told drinking is bad. Sex is bad and we won’t event tell you about unprotected sex. We won’t even give you a condom and immediately pregnancy was on the rise. That’s when the abortion conversation began. Yes, is my point. Being a man, oh fuck, you have to be tough. Get a good job, take care of your family. Also, don’t wear dresses or eyeliner or make up. These are the pillars that are engrained in us through TV and religion. I think that’s hindered society. America is such a young country and we think it would behoove us to keep out women from conversations and not keep out men from those purity conversations.”

CM: “I think, in a church setting, we’re probably taught the same things - that it’s a gift and wait. But, I think in practice we see this really differently where women are expected to hold to that because your virginity is a gift and if you don’t you’re a whore or a slut. Where men are told these things but they’re not expected to act in the same way women are. If they don’t wait it’s like they’re told good for you champ. I don’t think that’s fair.”

Anything you want to elaborate on or talk about that hasn’t been asked?

GG: “If it’s consensual and it’s not hurting anyone then, you do you.”

CW: “Yes. If you were to ask how do I live purely? I constantly question myself and my biases. I have a formed path that is defined as Casey-ism which is in the sphere of optimistic cosmic nihilism. There are 4 doctrines or rules. The first is: don’t be a dick. Most people follow it. The second: what can you be, then just be. It’s very easy to be and the cynical nihilist will come to me and go what? Number three: do. It’s very easy. Do what? Do anything but don’t be a dick. Number four: everything matters and yet nothing matters. It’s paradoxical - you are a human being and you have a consciousness but nothing matters. You could get struck by a bus so it doesn’t really matter but I’m sure what you’re doing right now does. On a universal point nothing matters and it’s very freeing.”

Well, that’s all we have for now. Tune in next week for the part 3 - our last and final part of this purity series.

Calling Out: Sex and Sexuality - Part 3

Calling Out: Sex & Sexuality - Part 2

Calling Out: Sex & Sexuality - Part 1

Wanna Hear from Someone New?

Calling Out: Purity - Part 3

What does purity mean to you?

Who taught you about purity? Was it explicitly said or was it implicit?

Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught about purity?

What does purity culture mean to you?

Do you feel as though purity culture effects you and your decisions?

What do you think are the effects of purity culture on today’s generation?

Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught by purity culture?

Do you see purity culture’s effects in media, your hometown, your family, or your friends?

What kind of moral, identity, or self-worth implications do you think purity culture has placed on people?

Do you think your religion or lack thereof has something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree?

Do you think your parents or boomers in general have something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree?

Do you think men and women are taught/told different things about purity? If so what and do you agree?

Anything you want to elaborate on or talk about that hasn’t been asked?

Wrap up

Calling Out: Purity - Part 2

What does purity mean to you?

Who taught you about purity? Was it explicitly said or was it implicit?

Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught about purity?

What does purity culture mean to you?

Do you feel as though purity culture affects you and your decisions?

What do you think are the effects of purity culture on today’s generation?

Do you agree or disagree with what you were taught by purity culture?

Do you see purity culture’s effects in media, your hometown, your family, or your friends?

What kind of moral, identity, or self-worth implications do you think purity and purity culture has placed on people?

Do you think your religion or lack thereof has something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree with it?

Do you think your parents or boomers in general have something to say about purity and purity culture? If so, what and do you agree with it?

Do you think men and women are taught/told different things about purity? If so what? Do you agree?

Anything you want to elaborate on or talk about that hasn’t been asked?

WE ARE: the ecclesia